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SUMMARY KEYWORDS
conflict, emotions, glass, people, avoid, upset, communication, life, filters, relax, moment, communicate, absolutely, tongue, perceive, laughter, hear, partner, verbalize
SPEAKERS
Kathi, Daisy
Daisy 00:04
Bald and Blonde. Welcome to the mindset evolution podcast, hear about tips, tricks, skills, tools, inspiration, mental hygiene, know what you want and how to create what you desire to achieve predictable results and create a content life wherever you are. And here your hosts Kathi Tait and Daisy Papp.
Kathi 00:28
And hello everybody. This is Kathi Tait the Baldwarrior coming to you live from Australia and I am here with Daisy Papp from Florida Keys in the USA. Hi Daisy how are you?
Daisy 00:41
Hello my dear Kathi, and hello to our listeners. Thank you so much. I'm doing fantastic. I'm very, very busy with client sessions that that's not really new. It is very, very enjoyable. And I had a client today when the story that they told me from beginning to where we got by today is so heartwarming. So I took the chance and I asked them whenever they feel inspired to write a testimonial, because this is just so inspiring and so beautiful, what this man went through and where he got in the meantime, and it's absolutely beyond his wildest dreams.
Kathi 01:20
That's amazing. I love hearing stories like that when we can truly impact people and help make real change in their lives, so they can be you know, happier and healthier and have better relationships and all round positive change. So that's great to hear.
Daisy 01:38
Oh, yeah, it's so fulfilling. It's so fulfilling. And another client today, she said, Daisy, I'm so grateful you didn't give up on me. And I said, no, no, I was just a little bit more stubborn than you were. And she says, no, Daisy, you're just devoted. I really like that. That is very sweet. It's heartwarming.
Kathi 01:57
That's beautiful. It is beautiful.
Daisy 01:59
When we actually think about what we are doing here, we are giving the essence to a broad audience.
Kathi 02:06
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and that's why we're doing this, right? We're doing this because we want to help people out there on a mass scale, because we can only do so much one on one, right?
Daisy 02:17
That's right. Well, that's why I like to do also seminars or workshops, because when there are more people, I can reach more people and when they go home and to their families, things changed. And then how many people are affected by one change? Beautiful?
Kathi 02:34
Absolutely. It's like a domino effect, isn't it? Like you change one life and they pay it forward and change many, many others. Which kind of brings us to what we're going to talk about today. I decided that we should do conflict as a topic. And I chose that because this is something that I'm not very good at Daisy, I have to admit that conflict has been something that I have shied away from pretty much my whole life. I don't like confrontation. I don't like hurt feelings. And I guess that's probably because of my past. And you know, when I really think about why I avoid conflict, and even why I avoid hard conversations with people, it comes back to when I was young and got very badly bullied and my feelings were very badly hurt a lot of the time. And I guess that it hurts so much that I'd never really wanted to go back and feel that again. And so I just kind of thought if I avoid conflict, altogether then I won't have to be hurt like that. But it doesn't really work like that in reality, because it is pretty much impossible to avoid all conflict if you have relationships. Right?
Daisy 03:52
I agree. I agree. Well, it's also almost not avoidable, so it's inevitable to have conflict with self, Oh, I should do that, but should I do that or should I? What should... Okay, what if I do this? Or now maybe I want to eat ice cream, but the salad would be more beneficial. So that's also what do we consider is the conflict? The question is what is your definition of conflict?
Kathi 04:20
That's a great question because I have no problem being in conflict with myself and resolving. You know, I I'm good at that. But I guess the definition of conflict for me would be opposing opinions in a way that isn't easily resolved. If you have a disagreement with somebody, it can be straightforward to sort it out if you speak about it. But if you bring emotions into the equation, I think that when feelings start getting hurt and emotions start sort of flying around then it can be a lot harder to resolve conflict because of those emotions. And then getting in the way of perhaps your normal cool head and your normal way of being able to see both sides. Once emotions are involved, I think it's much harder to have that cool head and be able to sort of step back
from it.
Daisy 05:24
I think you described a very, very interesting aspect that hits at communication. I believe that we can start there. Because conflict... okay, we have conflicting interests. You want to go skiing I want to go waterskiing. I want to eat pasta, you want to eat sushi, which by itself is both good. Waterskiing is fun, and skiing is fun, jet skiing is fun. Just to add another one. Sushi is fun, pasta is fun. Nothing wrong with either one of it. How can we build a bridge?
Kathi 05:57
I like that, build a bridge
Daisy 06:00
And let's start with communication. So this is quite unexpected. Just for the listeners out there. I learn what the topic is about two minutes before we start recording. Just for the record...
Kathi 06:15
This is true, I don't give Daisy any notice. Daisy goes, what do you want to talk about? And I pull it out of my hat. And we go for it.
Daisy 06:23
So, for me, this is always kind of an unexpected life session, actually what we do but for large group for you guys out there for ladies and gentlemen, young and old. So let's speak about communication. We communicate with our facial expressions, we communicate with verbs, words, without tone, we communicate by ignoring. It's also a style of communication.
Kathi 06:49
Oh, yes, before I divorced my ex husband and I didn't speak to him for two whole weeks.
Daisy 06:55
Oh?
Kathi 06:56
We were living in the same house, we did not talk. Two weeks. Incredible now.
Daisy 07:02
That can happen. So in order to get to the conflict solution, first, let's have a look what causes the conflict. Most of the time we communicate about our conflicts, even those who use sign language, they can quite argue. So it's not only that we can do it over speech and with our voices, communication, what is healthy communication? Now, I put you on the spot because you didn't know I'm going to ask this. (Laughter)
Kathi 07:35
Fair's fair. Well, for me healthy communication is listening and understanding the other person that's what it is for me and yourself. Right? It's two ways. So both parties need to hear each other and actually listen, to understand and not just listen to reply.
Daisy 07:59
That's a very Very good point. I like that. You're smart. Wonderful. Well, would you like to hear my definition of communication? healthy communication?
Kathi 08:12
Absolutely.
Daisy 08:13
To be understood, and to understand without the need to be right.
Kathi 08:19
Yes, good point.
Daisy 08:21
Because I can understand you as long as I want, but if I need to be right, I'm quite argumentative. Hmm.
Kathi 08:27
I think that's absolute key Daisy, absolute key, without the need to be right.
Daisy 08:33
So when I start speaking, first person singular, very important. For example, I say, Kathi, I would like you to put the glass please on the right side of the sink because that is so much safer for me to take them in and wash them later. I wonder if you would help me with that. That's very soft.
Kathi 08:53
Certainly Daisy. (Laughter)
Daisy 08:59
Thank you.
Daisy 09:02
So, you see that's soft?
Daisy 09:04
When I never speak up with my request, but I'm expecting you because we're married, it's on the paper. Right? Then I expect from you that you know that the wonderful glass belongs on that side of the sink because I'm the one washing it and you better make sure that I'm not breaking it because I'm not going to go and buy another one. Because you're stupid. You see, there is an emotional.....
Kathi 09:04
Yeah
Kathi 09:30
Hang on, are we mind readers suddenly because we got married?
Daisy 09:35
Very good point we're not and even people who are married for 50 years are not mind readers. They may believe they are, but we are not so good at it. So accept the fact that you are not a mind reader. Big deal. Good try. Big deal. Stop assuming, ask questions instead.
Kathi 09:55
Yeah, I think that's a really good point too Daisy because I think that a lot of the time we make assumptions without really thinking it through sometimes. You know, we assume that somebody feels the same way as us, or we assume that they know what we want, or we assume that they understand how we feel, and I don't think that that's the case. I mean, I think that we are all similar, but we're also all very different. And I don't think that you can ever assume no matter how well you know someone, or how long you've known them for, that you can always tell what they thinking or feeling.
Daisy 10:38
I agree. So let's say you and I go to a restaurant once a month, always same restaurant, always same table, and I'm so accustomed, that you always order the same drink. This time you get up from the table, walk out to the powder room and come back and I ordered you a drink that you had over the past two years, two weeks, two months, whatever. And you'll come back and you say, Well, I didn't want that. Why did you order me that drink? I don't want that. Could be a conflict, right?
Kathi 11:08
Sure
Daisy 11:08
I assume because you always wanted that kind of drink that then in the future, I just copy the past and I projected in the future and there it goes. No, it does not. You have the right to change your mind. You have the right to change your tastes. You have the right to change your tastes regarding what you drink, what you eat, people you surround yourself with, sports, hobbies, books, music.
Daisy 11:33
So let's communicate. Once we come to the conclusion and we accept the fact that we are not mind reader's, it also becomes clear that it is healthy to ask more often questions. Honey, what would you like to drink tonight? And I asked that. Well, I would like to have a tea but this time I'd like it with a little ginger and no honey. Okay, easy, conflict, not even establishing.
Kathi 11:58
Yeah
Daisy 11:59
But when I assume, oh, she always drinks her afternoon drink as a coffee, but now she changed her mind. And then I get upset. Oh, she does that on purpose because she was upset because I didn't wear the right tie or because my socks are not the perfect color that she envisioned I'm supposed wearing today, and now she's doing it on purpose. Mistake number two, you're not that important that everybody is doing everything because of you (laughter).
Kathi 12:29
I love that. Remember, it's not about you, you folks.
Daisy 12:36
Oftentimes, it's not.
Kathi 12:38
Yeah, that's very true.
Daisy 12:39
And even if it was about you, who has the problem?
Kathi 12:44
Wow, the person who's thinking that way has the problem. Yeah.
Daisy 12:50
The person who has the problem has the problem. The moment when you accept it, then you're kind of a
teammate, co-worker, co-creator, then it's yours as well. I do remember that I was offered a gift and I knew that this is not for me. So I said, thank you so much. That's very, very thoughtful. This is not for me. But I truly appreciate that, very thoughtful. Thank you. Now that was clear communication. Correct? Now, when somebody instead of giving me the gift that would have been nicely wrapped, or a bouquet of flowers or a nice bottle of bubbly, instead of that it's an argument. I can choose to not accept the gift. And the good news is, they keep it. You just don't engage in it. Requires a little self discipline though. (Laughter)
Kathi 13:41
Which is tough when emotions are involved, right?
Daisy 13:44
Well, that's the point your emotions are yours. So let's go back to the basics, objective reality does exist. It really does. Nobody can perceive it as such, because you have your filters, I have my filters and Susan has her filters and Joey has his filters. And Mike has different filters. And Chris has another set of filters. We may all sit in the same room at the same table at the same moment and all perceive something differently as the truth.
Kathi 14:12
Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's even a saying there's my truth, your truth and then the actual truth, because we do all perceive things through a filter of our own experience.
Daisy 14:24
And now when we go back to the emotions, everything that I'm perceiving through my filters, everything goes through an evaluation process. Is it positive? Is it negative, or is it neutral? When I consider it positive my body will follow the positive perception. If I think oh, that's really terrible. That's just um, no, my body will respond to that, objective reality, my perception through my filter evaluation system.
Kathi 14:52
Yeah
Daisy 14:52
My evaluation process. And then comes my response. That is when my emotions kick in right, energy in motion. My emotions kick in. And that is when I ooh, this is just terrible. How could you do this? Oh, again, you left the glass over there because you knew that I'm going to drop it, you wish because I got it from my lovely girlfriend and you do it on purpose. Avoiding conflict always creates more conflict. So we don't want to be avoid-a-holics. I know this word doesn't exist, but it makes sense.
Kathi 15:24
It's a good word. I like it. I definitely was an avoid-a-holic.
Daisy 15:29
Okay, but things can change. Yes. Nobody taught you how to healthily solve a conflict.
Kathi 15:35
No, they didn't. In fact, it just wasn't a thing, like I never got taught how to respond or deal with it. I mean, we didn't even get taught how to deal with any emotions, let alone conflict. So I guess my instinct was just to avoid it to keep myself safe.
Daisy 15:52
Mm hmm. And that became your practice. Your habit.
Kathi 15:55
Yes
Daisy 15:56
Your pattern.
Kathi 15:56
And of course because I had a very violent partner very early on in my young adulthood, that probably made it worse. It probably made me think if I avoid it then I actually won't get physically hurt either. So that was a thing for me.
Daisy 16:13
And then you created a belief around that. Avoiding is safe.
Kathi 16:18
Yes.
Daisy 16:19
And all that happened is that it didn't get updated yet.
Kathi 16:23
Yes.
Daisy 16:23
But that's something we can do. You update your computer and your software and your phone and your iPad and your headset and everything gets updated. Sometimes you're even forced to update it, you cannot even avoid it. And here it goes. And you're on a new software new operating system and you cannot even try to go back. I tried to go back on a computer where I had very old software on and I tried, I called my computer super guru and I say, hey, please do something because I need my software. He says well there I would have to dis-install everything and start from scratch and install an old software that is just not up to date anymore. Is that truly what you want?
Daisy 17:06
So when you update your software regarding the belief, avoiding conflict is safe, saving my life, it is healthy for me, better for me, let's keep it this way. I rather say nothing. That was true back then. But maybe today it's holding you back. So we want to have a look at these beliefs. Let's go back to the emotions. When I'm upset because you left the glass, I know there is no glass. It's just a made up scenario, please. (Laughter) So if Kathi leaves the glass out there, and I'm really upset about it, then where did the upset come from?
Kathi 17:43
Okay, I think it comes from you feeling like you weren't heard and that the other person didn't have consideration for you.
Daisy 17:53
That's very possible, very good. But it's something, the glass itself and the situation that it was there again triggered me and my response to the trigger is being upset. So it's indirect. You don't make me upset, what you do and how I perceive it and the meaning I give it may make me do that.
Kathi 18:14
Right. Yeah, good point.
Daisy 18:15
So my response to the trigger, that's my responsibility. So when I get upset, and I feel it emotionally, because she's doing that, because she doesn't care, she doesn't love me anymore, he doesn't love me anymore, then I better take care of me first, before I try to solve the conflict.
Daisy 18:36
Because there is oftentimes in life we have only two choices, left or right. Black or White. Life is very colorful, no doubt, many, many shades of colors, many, many different nuances. Beautiful, but sometimes in life, we need to make a decision and here's where you can make a clear decision. Do I want to be part of the problem or do I want to be part of the solution. When I choose to be part of the solution, then it is up to me, it's my responsibility to take care of myself. Because when I'm upset and let's say I really screech at you, scream at you, yell at you. I'm loud, I may resent later on, may regret it. I can't take it back. But when I collect myself first and then go back to the communication, the healthy communication basics, to understand and be understood without the need to be right, then I am part of the solution and not of the problem.
Kathi 19:31
Yes, and I can absolutely see that. So for our listeners, and for me, what you know, in the heat of the moment when you're very emotional, upset, angry, frustrated, any of those things that you might feel in the middle of a conflict with your partner or whoever, how do you not react? Let's help our listeners out and go well, how do we not react straight away and make the whole conflict worse or progress it or inflate the problem, how do we stop and step back in order to not react in such a way that makes it worse? Like how do we do that? Because it's easy to say all these things. But in the heat of the moment, it's much tougher. Have we got some sort of tool or exercise or sort of tip that we can give our listeners to help them in that moment?
Daisy 20:33
It's very, very challenging to give a tip or suggestion or solution that fits all. And I can give you a very good example. I had a client of mine and she tells me well, but I'm getting so angry. I'm getting so angry and the people around me they tell me, Well, why don't you just take a deep breath and calm down? What happens within her when she gets so upset, she feels like choking and she can't breathe. It's impossible for her to take a deep breath. So therefore, it's not that easy to give a one fits all tip. But one thing that we can all do, not easy to do, but very well worth it when you're really upset. Try and relax your tongue.
Daisy 21:12
Oh, relax your tongue.
Daisy 21:14
Relax your tongue. Yes, because...
Kathi 21:19
I knew you would have something awesome Daisy.
Daisy 21:24
I was lucky just popped in my head. No kidding.
Kathi 21:30
Relax your tongue.
Daisy 21:32
Neuroscience found when you relax your tongue you cannot be angry at the same time.
Kathi 21:36
Ah, really?
Daisy 21:38
Yeah.
Kathi 21:39
Oh my goodness. Ah, did you hear that out there guys. Serious genius right here. Relax your tongue. Now. I would never have thought of that. So neuroscience shows us that we can't focus on relaxing our tongue and be angry at the same time.
Daisy 22:03
Impossible.
Kathi 22:04
This is great. And you didn't think there would be one thing?
Daisy 22:10
Well, this is something that we can all do, young, old, men, women, Australia, US, Europe, Asia.
Kathi 22:16
Wow. Unless you don't have a tongue.
Daisy 22:18
Yeah. Well...
Kathi 22:20
So sorry for anybody tongue was out there, but this is gold. So relax your tongue. And I think that while you're thinking about trying to do that, the emotions kind of quieten down. It's a little moment of respite, maybe, we can just pull it a bit.
Daisy 22:37
I think it's good to retreat for a moment, that collect, take a moment this is not about life or death. Usually it's
not.
Kathi 22:45
I tell you what, honestly, Daisy, I'm not sure if it's just because I've had such toxic relationships, but the kind of arguments that I've been in with a partner have been full-on, like humdingers, like they're not just a heated discussion, they're full on fights, you know, where we're yelling at each other. And sometimes things might get thrown across the room like they were full on, you know, big deal kind of conflicts. And so when I personally think about conflict with a partner, it's probably much more radical than perhaps a lot of people would imagine, because I have had relationships that have been like that. So for me, this is quite kind of a bit of magic because, you know, I think about the past and I think about the fights I have been in with my partners and I know I used running away from conflict as a way to just avoid it all together, but it didn't work.
Kathi 23:48
When we did have conflict. It was always much bigger and badder. Because I had avoided it and it kind of skewed and festered right so then when the conflict ended up happening, it was probably 100 times worse than it would have been to begin with. But what I'm trying to say is that this one little piece of like a tip, relax your tongue, just that moment where you think to do that, can be enough to just cool down the strength of the emotions flying around the room, enough to just de-escalate it a bit. And really, I think that that is one of the goals if you're dealing with conflict, in order to get to the point where you can understand each other without the need to be right, you have to have a break from the going at each other. You've got to de-escalate that part so you can do the next part which is trying to understand each other.
Daisy 24:48
We want to remember that anger just does not pop up all of a sudden, usually, unless you're walking somewhere and you get attacked and then anger jumps from zero to 1000. But usually there is a curve to it. And we want to learn to become more sensitive what is going on before it escalates, when we don't see. When I'm numb and I don't say anything about that famous glass that supposed to be on the right side of the sink, because I asked you to and you say, let's say, you always put it on the left side and I never say a thing, it starts to boil within me. How does it do that? Well, I perceive it's again there. I don't say a thing. Well, maybe she's doing it on purpose, that's what I'm suggesting, projecting, assuming, right? I can stop doing that by asking questions. Kathi, I wonder, have you heard me say that I asked you kindly to put the glass on the right side of the sink? Could you please do that, because I noticed that it's still on the left side most of the time. De-escalation.
Kathi 25:50
Yeah.
Daisy 25:51
Nothing brilliant.
Kathi 25:52
Yes, exactly. So don't let things have a chance to fester.
Daisy 25:58
But it starts before. Couples that fight terribly, they have fought before terribly. Nobody's born as a terrible fighter once they're in a relationship, no one, they learned that, they've seen it, maybe they grew up in a household. They watch too much on television, where it is taught how to fight and how to behave in what I call it impossible ways. And we want to really learn how to communicate in the first place. That's the basis and when we then can handle our own emotions. Okay, I see this glass really triggers me that it's on the left side, I acknowledge it, only when I acknowledge it, that is when I can verbalize it, communicate it. That is when I create a solution. You may still put it on the left side because maybe you just don't know where's left and right. I know people who really have difficulty with that. It's a very real problem. Fine. Then I can tell you look, I go and put a red sticker here so that it helps you remembering where it would be healthier for the glass to be, where it would be a better place for the glass so I don't break it. That is solution orientation. But when I go off at you and say, because you're stupid, or comes the a-to-z, all kinds of wonderful labels that people call each other, once I start doing that, it's more challenging to unlearn it, than to not learning it.
Kathi 27:25
Yeah
Daisy 27:26
So just avoid it. No, I'm not going to speak foul language. Make that decision for yourself. It will not solve the conflict, the foul language that you're using, it's not going to solve the conflict.
Kathi 27:38
If anything it's going to escalate it and make it much, much worse. Because it's kind of like poking a bear, right? You're having a conflict and then you start calling each other names and just being nasty. It does nothing but serve to hurt each other.
Daisy 27:57
And then it goes into competition. Oh, I said it louder, and I said it even meaner. So now I'm better than you.
Kathi 28:05
Yeah.
Daisy 28:05
How's that going to help us? So we want to really go back, back, back, back, back and have a look at our own conflict solving abilities. That's our responsibility. I'm responsible for mine, and you are responsible for yours. Now, when two people with relatively educated conflict solving skills or healthy conflict solving skills meet, it will be much easier to solve almost any conflict. Would you agree?
Kathi 28:35
Yes, absolutely.
Daisy 28:38
So it starts with me. Learn how to communicate before you communicate. Learn what's really going on with you. What happens within you? Where do you feel it? Is your neck tensing up? Are your shoulders almost like steel? Are you holding your breath back? Is your stomach in a cramp? Do you feel as if somebody is choking you, is your head pounding? Are your hands starting to shake? Notice first what happens with you and then you can verbalize, Kathi I'm sorry, whenever I see this glass on that side, my stomach is hard like the fist of Mohammed Ali when he won that big championship and my hands start shaking, and I'm getting sweaty and really almost feel as if my blood pressure is going through the roof.
Daisy 29:27
So I share with you what's going on with me when I see the trigger, the glass, and I'm not saying Kathi, because you're too stupid to put the glass always on the wrong side. That's offensive. Oil on the fire.
Daisy 29:39
First person singular. Learn to speak first person singular, not in an egoistic or egotistical way at all. Verbalize what you're observing? I'm observing like a camera would without any tone, what would that video the surveillance camera record? Well, there was a glass, no emotion to it. That glass, for some reason triggers me because it reminds me when I once was in a bar, and then I saw that glass and the next moment, I found myself in the hospital because in the meantime, I lost consciousness because somebody picked that glass and in the meantime, blah, blah, blah, something happened. I'm just making up that story...
Kathi 30:18
Hmm
Daisy 30:18
Then I can give you a reason not to justify, but to help you understand what's going on within me. When I see the glass on the left side of the sink, it reminds me of the murder that I witnessed 20 years ago or 50 years ago.
Daisy 30:34
But in order to be able to communicate that we first need to know what happens within us, and that's your responsibility. Mine is mine, and yours is yours. And the more people take care of their own responsibilities, the better world we will live in, because you will be more peaceful. Your partner, even if they want to give you the gift of a great argument, great discussion including all inclusive escalation, foul language, loud screeching, yelling, you can say, no, thank you. I appreciate the invite. I choose not.
Kathi 31:10
Oh, that's great. And I think that we might do a whole episode just on triggers very soon for you guys out there. But this has really been a really great discussion about conflict. Actually, I know that it's helped me. And I hope that it's helped you guys out there too, because I know that this is something that we're not all good at. And I think that if we could resolve a lot of the conflict in our lives, I think that would pay forward, you know, to society as a bigger picture. And that can only be a good thing. So I think we'll wrap it up there. Your insight is always so valuable. And you always come up with something really great to help people like relax your tongue, guys. That's our advice today. Relax your tongue and take responsibility for your own actions your own self because it takes two, right? So I think that's really key here isn't it?,
Daisy 32:11
Yeah, yeah. And remember, making the world a better place one person at a time, starting always with self. And next time when you hear someone really, really, coming across, very upset, you can just say them calmly, not sarcastically, calmly, gently, lovingly, hey, could you try to relax your tongue? Worst case, it will cause a confusion and that might break the cycle, it's dynamic.
Kathi 32:40
Absolutely I love it!
Kathi 32:43
Yes, thanks, everybody, for listening. We love having you tune in to our podcasts and we'll be back real soon with another awesome topic.
Daisy 32:52
Remember, it all starts within you, start today.
Kathi 32:56
This is Bald and Blonde mindset evolution, signing out. We'll talk to you real soon.
Daisy 33:02
Thank you so much for tuning in to the bald and blonde mindset evolution podcast. Make sure you like our podcast, comment, and leave us a five star review. subscribe on iTunes or wherever you consume podcasts, share with your friends and loved ones. Leave a comment and reach out to us with questions and how we can help you change your life. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Talk to you next time.