SUMMARY KEYWORDS
drama queen, drama, aware, laughter, people, queens, behavior, tendency, important, behave, life, bothered, personally, observe, awareness, person, conversation, patterns, podcast
SPEAKERS
Kathi, Daisy
Daisy 00:03
Bold and Blonde. Welcome to the mindset evolution podcast. Hear about tip, trick skills, tool, inspiration, mental hygiene, know what you want and how to create what you desire to achieve predictable results and create a content life wherever you are, and here are your hosts, Kathi Tait and Daisy Papp.
Kathi 00:27
And hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Bald and Blonde Mindset Evolution. I'm Kathi, Tait, your host from Down Under; with me as always, is Daisy Papp International excellence coach from Florida Keys Hi, Daisy.
Daisy 00:45
Hi, my dear friend Down Under. And what an amazing thing it is to know that I'm here in summertime and you're Down Under in wintertime. It is so lovely to know that we're really literally and factually embracing the world. I just love it. I'm so glad to see you. So what's up your sleeve? Because now it's wintertime you have sleeves on? Huh? (Laughter)
Kathi 01:09
I do. It's a little bit chilly, and as we're recording this, it's actually the shortest day of the year for us down here in Australia.
Daisy 01:17
That's right and the longest night and for me, it's just reverse. Well, I'm just one day late because for me the summer solstice is going to happen tomorrow. So I'm going to have to sleep one more.
Kathi 01:30
Yes, I am in the future, that is true. And in the name of the future, let's have another amazing topic to help our listeners be their best versions. Today we are going to talk about drama queens, and of course in brackets kings, because it applies to everybody, not just women out there. (Laughter)
Daisy 01:52
Okay, drama queen! (Singing) this is how I want to be seen drama queen. (Laughter) So, well, drama queens, who knows one drama queen or several? Because I do believe that there is no one on this planet who does not know one, but probably some areas in this beautiful life of ours, they're not where that we call them as such. But yeah, so they're everywhere. They can be everywhere.
Kathi 02:21
They can.
Daisy 02:21
So let's be selective who we surround ourselves with.
Kathi 02:26
So let's first give out what we define drama queens as.
Daisy 02:30
Go ahead.
Kathi 02:31
Yeah. For me, I think it's people that overdramaticize, overdramaticize things because
Daisy 02:38
overdramatize (laughter).
Kathi 02:43
For me, it's people who overdramatize things, possibly because they're feeling like they need some attention in their lives. What is it for you, Daisy?
Daisy 02:54
Well, I do believe it's a pattern, a behavioral pattern and a coping skill.
Kathi 02:59
That's interesting that you say that, a coping skill?
Daisy 03:03
Well, they weren't born as one.
Kathi 03:05
That is true.
Daisy 03:06
So there might be tendencies when we're born, and then our surroundings and the environment will maybe allow it or support it, enable it more or less. My mother had a wonderful saying when she said, children are like the river, and parents are the riverbed.
Kathi 03:24
That is wonderful. I do like that. Because I think as you said, we aren't born with a lot of these traits. We learn them through life, and our surroundings and our main teachers are our parents.
Daisy 03:37
Yes. And then teachers, siblings, neighbors' parents, neighbor children, and other students, pupils and the school, kindergarten. And let's say we have the attempt testing to be a drama queen, and we get away with it. What does that teach us?
Kathi 03:55
Reinforces the behavior.
Daisy 03:56
That teaches us it works. Yeah. So do you have an example of where it bothers you that a drama queen is in your environment, so that we can maybe go to the juicy parts of this conversation?
Kathi 04:11
Here's an example that I do see around the place, and that's when toddlers, perhaps in the supermarket and want a lolly or the chocolate or whatever, and they've been told no, and they throw themselves on the ground and have a tantrum. And depending on how the parent reacts, teaches the child whether that behavior is going to be mollycoddled, and they're going to get away with it or whether the parent is going to go no, that is unacceptable. And I think that's how young it can start. My son is now a grown man, but he did do this once in the supermarket, decided to throw himself on the ground and have a tanty (laughter) and so I just promptly walked away and said, okay, see you later, and left him there. And as soon as he realized that I wasn't going to enable the behavior, he got himself back up and ran after me.
Daisy 05:11
That is a very good example. And I think it's a very good response from your part. Not all parents are capable of doing that.
Kathi 05:20
Yes,
Daisy 05:21
I believe it is important to realize that when we take it personally, that then we become the enabler, more likely than when we can not take it personally. And here's why. That's how I believe this is the case. Look, I've been wrong before, and I will be again, so this is how I see it now. Let's say you're really upset. And I feel that maybe I have contributed to you being upset, then something happens within me emotionally. I may feel guilty, I may feel ashamed. I may feel sorry, I may feel ah yeah, maybe I overdid it. So my movie in my own head, and the self-talk goes on and on and on. When I can stop taking it personally, then I just observe. Okay, so she's in a particular mood today. And then it is almost like arriving at a dead end. So it takes two to be a drama queen.
Kathi 06:15
Yeah, right? Because one person has to buy into it. (Laughter)`
Daisy 06:19
I think that is a good way to put it. Well, yes, or start playing in this dynamic.
Kathi 06:25
Yeah
Daisy 06:26
So, what is your goal with having this as a topic, drama queens.
Kathi 06:31
I think my goal is for people to have some self-awareness around how they act and behave. Because I don't know that those that are drama queens always realize that is what they were doing, perhaps because they've always just been that way, or whoever has been around them has bought into it, and so it's played out as a dynamic. And I think one of our biggest goals with this podcast is self-awareness, and realizing that we do need to look inwards, and really be honest with ourselves about the way we act and behave in order to grow as a person.
Daisy 07:14
In order to do that, the first step is self-awareness. When I'm not even aware that I'm having the tendency to behave more likely like a drama queen, or the so-called drama queen or be seen as the drama queen, then when I'm not aware of it, then there's nothing to look at.
Kathi 07:32
Yes, exactly. So how do we do that? How do we help people take the self-inventory and go? Is my behavior over the top? Or is this a way for me to get some attention that I feel like I'm lacking in my life? How do we get them to take that self-inventory, if they're not aware in the first place?
Daisy 07:55
When they're not aware, I don't believe that there's anything we can do. The person who is bothered by those who are not aware, we can help them because they're already aware that there's something that bothers me. The person who thinks they're doing everything correctly, and they behave just like fantastic, phenomenal, Superwoman, or Superman, they have no point of attachment to our conversation, they cannot grasp it, because they have that self-belief, and probably they're convinced that nothing's wrong. So who is bothered? They're not bothered, they just do what they always do. But let's say you are bothered, then who has the problem?
Kathi 08:35
Yeah, so now it comes down to how we react or respond to others.
Daisy 08:42
I believe in order to change their own behavior of being a drama queen, more or less, is being bothered by a drama queen more or less. Because when I see it in the outside, that it bothers me, that is when I then can become aware of what's going on within me. When it doesn't bother me, when you meet to drama queens, and they're just in their own dynamics, they just think it's wonderful. And then they just drama around and drama some more, you see. So it's not their problem, actually, it's us who believe it is a problem. You see, there's a little bit of a turn in events here, when we change our perspective.
Kathi 09:17
It is an interesting conversation and dynamic. And I know that personally, when I observe drama queens, I come back to what you've taught me and go, well, is this life or death? (Laughter)
Daisy 09:35
Good one. Yeah.
Kathi 09:37
And that certainly puts it in perspective for me because both of us and many people out there of our listeners have had actual life and death situations. And when you see somebody making, we call it a mountain out of a molehill, it is quite amusing to me personally, when I observe it, and I don't take it personally because I know where it fits in the scheme of things for me.
Daisy 10:05
Well, in Germany, we would say making an elephant out of a mosquito. So I think the proportions are becoming visible there as well. I'm not sure in different languages, how they compare to this. I believe it's a good idea to observe things happening as if you were a surveillance camera. Why is that important? Because it deletes one of the senses, because the camera I'm talking about is not recording voice. So when you step back, and you just observe what people do, their physique, their physiology, their body language, their grimaces, or their facial expressions, or their fist on the table, then you're already able to step a step back to not taking it personally. I think that's already a good start, l``et's put it this way. Now, when we are very compassionate people, then we have the tendency that we want to help. We want to rush in "Oh, no, no, no, it's not that bad. Don't worry, honey, it's going to be all good". And then, of course, the drama queen feels, okay, I got some more oil on my fire, so let's make the flames a little higher, bigger, more scary. And when we start allowing them to be in their temper, and allowing them to remain in their mood, instead of trying to fix it, and if we communicate with them pointing out there behavior, so for example, "you seem quite upset!"
"Yes of course, I'm so super, blah, blah, blah, blah."
"Well, I can understand this must be exhausting for you." For example, now imagine what the drama queen then responds, I know of some, they always have another thing to say.
"Well, you always say that you have no compassion. And you see what happened to me?" Well, the good news is that we are not trees, we can walk away. That doesn't mean we leave the relationship forever. But I can leave the situation, I can leave the setting, allow them to calm down. I can, for example, say when I'm seeing you, let's say you throw temper here, then I can say, well, you seem very upset. I suggest we reconnect when you have calmed down. You see it, so I'm not engaging in it.
Kathi 12:18
Yeah
Daisy 12:19
It's compassionate. I have the feeling you may want to have some time out, or would you like to talk about it? And then when you feel you want to talk about it, then I can set the framing, for example, I personally no cussing, no potty mouth, potty mouth on, Daisy's gone. That's it! I'm out of there. I'm not participating.
Kathi 12:39
Yeah, I think this is really important, because I think this is, a lot of the solutions to our issues is communication. But you need to get the participants in a state where they're able to communicate calmly and responsibly, and actually make a connection where you can talk about the real things that are going on for them, and be out of that sort of drama stage.
Daisy 13:08
Let me give you a picture here. Let's say you and I, we sit in the theater. And there's the drama going on, on stage, because that's the play, that's part of the play. Can we speak to the actors?
Kathi 13:19
No.
Daisy 13:20
Why?
Kathi 13:21
Because they're on stage.
Daisy 13:22
They're on stage, and they're in their element.
Kathi 13:25
And we're the audience.
Daisy 13:26
Yes, but also they are in their element,.
Kathi 13:29
Right? Yeah.
Daisy 13:30
So we need to wait until they're out of their element of that role, and then we may be able to connect with them.
Kathi 13:37
Yeah, that's a really good, it's sort of, I don't know, is it a metaphor? It sounds like a metaphor. (Laughter) Yeah. That's a great picture, because it really very clearly shows that the people in the drama states aren't at a level where they can interact and communicate to solve it.
Daisy 13:57
That's right. And I would also go back a little bit to the reptilian brain, because once that's switched on, it's always there, it is there for our survival of the species. But when it's on high alert, then we cannot possibly think logically or rationally, it's not the purpose of that state, when we are in that state of mind and are tremendously upset and we, Dawson Church, who is a great author, and wrote The Genie in your Genes, anyone out there who's interested in epigenetics and research, he has a collection of research, that's one of the finest collections when it comes to that, and how the brain and the body interact and how you can actually have an impact on your DNA, which sounds almost fairytale-ish, but it's very real, interestingly, and he says, well, let's say 1000s of years ago, you and I will live somewhere in the mountains and all of a sudden, maybe once a month, maybe twice a month, there's a mountain lion in front of us, and then it's really about life or death.
Or today, we don't have mountain lions unless we live in an area where they still live, then in our office, an email can appear, as a mountain lion, as a threat, the phone call or the name on the display on your phone, or someone ringing your doorbell, or in traffic, someone's honking behind you, or someone's honking beside you, or someone's not driving fast enough in front of you. And then that is what Dawson Church relates to as a paper tiger. So maybe it's not a real tiger that's there in front of you, but it's a paper tiger. So now we are so used to our habits, and our patterns that we usually are not aware of them anymore. Why? Because our brain is actually lazy. It's trying to save energy, it's trying to put what's in the short-term memory into the long term, so it can be an automated program, so we don't have to consciously think about it. Think of your desktop, if you have too many windows open, it slows down the system. So same with us. So many, if not most, of our patterns are automated. They're like autopilot programs. That is why it's so challenging sometimes to become aware. That's why feedback is essential. Without feedback, hey, Daisy, you behave like a drama queen, aren't you a little bit? So if nobody would tell me then I may never know. So everyone, by the way, I'm not a drama queen and I don't behave as such, in case anyone out there is interested in that. But I know of drama queens. So the question is, do I enable it, or do I set my boundaries?
Now, if I am a drama queen, let's say some of our listeners out there realize, yeah, maybe I have the tendency to exaggerate. Or maybe I have the tendency when I'm in the group of people that I always have a dramatic story to tell. And if somebody tells, well, the neighbor's dog died, then oh, yeah, but you know, what there? Oh, 20 dogs died at the same time! Can you imagine? So always trying to maybe have the bigger story or the greater impact of my story. So then, if I'm becoming aware of that, then I can have a look at the roots. When I'm not aware of it, leave it alone, because you're not aware of it. Look, if it's not on the surface, there's nothing you can do with it.
This is maybe an ugly example, and sometimes I'm asked Daisy, why do you bring up these examples? Well, these are the ones popping in my mind. Let's say you have a pimple that will grow two weeks from now, what can you do about it? It's under your surface, it's in the making. Can you pop it? No. So when the drama queen is in your face, let's say the pimple and only when you're aware of it when you look in the mirror, oh, there's the drama queen. Only then you can do something about it.
Kathi 17:45
Mmm
Daisy 17:45
About your own drama queenery.
Kathi 17:48
Yeah, I think you bring up a really good example. I've observed many times people who need to one-up the story. I think that's a common kind of behavior that I see, and I don't know if the people doing it are aware of it or not, but I do see it quite a lot and so that's a good place to start as self-inventory. Am I in a conversation with people and I feel like I need to do one better?
Daisy 18:19
Mmm, this is so funny that it comes to my mind, I don't even know when the last time I thought about it. My brother and my grandmother, my German grandmother, they had a great conversation. And they had sometimes a very, I'd say profound but peaceful arguments. So they were arguing about some topic, I don't remember what it was because I was seven years younger than my brother. And I remember though, how the argument ended. So my grandmother turned towards my brother and says, well, you always need to have the last word. And my brother turned around sweet as he was, and he says, how am I supposed to know you don't want to say anything anymore? (Laughter) You see, try to escalate it, be compassionate. The person who behaves as drama queen, or has these behavioral traits, they have something going on within them. Have a look, have compassion. Be a good listener. And when you don't want to listen, walk away. Say, look, I understand you seem really upset and it's really bothering you. I'm going to retreat. And when you're in a better mood, in a better position in a better mindset, then let me know and I'm here and then we can speak about it. So if the majority of humans would not accept drama queen behavior, that would be fewer drama queens.
Kathi 19:40
Yeah. And I think it's interesting that you point out that even though some of the people buying into it that actually are doing it because they want to help, it still may not be helping.
Daisy 19:53
What's your long-term goal? If it's a short-term relief, then okay, yeah, well, honey, it's okay. It's okay, just calm down. What else can I do that you will calm down? But the root cause is still not addressed.
Kathi 20:06
Yes, well, let's talk about the root cause.
Daisy 20:09
Well, there can be many root causes. It is something that bothers me in the outside world, and within me, I don't have coping skills that are healthier than the ones that I'm using currently. Now, the media plays a big role in this. If there was no media,
Kathi 20:28
I think definitely mass media can incite certain behaviors and fears.
Daisy 20:35
When you go to the grocery store, I don't know, I forgot how it is in Australia, it's a long time that I've been there. But when you go to the grocery store, at the cashier at the checkout, they have some kind of stands where they have papers and magazines, and what's on the front page? It's a drama, oh, this and that, he lost his baby, this one just gets divorced, this one had a car accident, this one is found guilty, this one took drugs. So it is kind of that attention hunger, that we are conditioned to. And this is very dangerous in many regards, I believe humbly, because what does it do when we are surrounded by so much drama, then we become numb, because otherwise we couldn't bear it. We couldn't handle it anymore. So let's say if the magazines would not be allowed, from let's say today on, to put any drama on their front pages, or when in the soap opera, there would be no drama going on, then that would become a new standard, that people can interact with one another without drama. But look how it's deeply embedded in our society.
Kathi 21:43
Yes, you're right. And when I think about that, the first thing that comes to my mind, because I probably don't really read magazines or newspapers, but I do watch some reality TV shows. And that's exactly what they do. They deliberately provoke and inject drama in order to widen their listening audience, because people want to see how the drama plays out. We're almost addicted to it. And therefore, that tells us it's normal to behave that way.
Daisy 22:15
Well, the three-year-old, let's say that grows up in a healthy family setting where people communicate in a healthy way, calmly, they make their points, they even point out what is to their dislikes, what is what they would like and what is that they wish for, and really communicate in a healthy way. That little child three years old, is not going to throw a temper, and throw herself on the floor when it has never seen doing it from anyone else. Back to your son. He has seen that somewhere. He wasn't born like that.
Kathi 22:52
I'm sure it probably came from preschool or daycare or kindergarten, whatever you call it in your culture, I think that it's probably quite common when you put a whole lot of toddlers in one room that there's going to be at least one of them that behaves that way. And then it is observed and copied. And the important point there is how then you respond to that. And I certainly brought my son up learning how to calmly communicate without any potty mouth or overdramatizing. And I'm quite sure that's one of the reasons he's such a fine young man today. Yes, I think that a lot of this is learned behavior., and I often say, if anything happens around you long enough, it does become normal, whether we realize that it's actually, well what is normal, but that's another discussion. But it can become the norm for you if it happens often enough. And that's where I think that the self-awareness really needs to come into play, and why I keep picking topics that kind of force this self-analysis because without that we cannot evolve.
Daisy 24:06
One more picture came to my mind, that children learn not what they're told to do, but more likely what they observe others doing. When you go to a park and you observe children, and let's say they pick up that little wooden stick, and then they pretend as if they're smoking, no one told them pick up a wooden stick and pretend smoking. No, they've seen that behavior, not the wooden stick but they've seen someone smoking, otherwise it would never ever crossed their mind you see. So it is a big responsibility that the media has. And I do believe that they play on it very much to their own advantage and whomever owns the media. And it is also I believe a little bit wanted to keep us in a drama setting because it takes our focus away from maybe much more important topics, you see, my humble opinion.
Kathi 25:02
I think you're right. I think the media has a huge responsibility and plays a huge role in what the masses see, hear and believe, and influence thinking in a way that can be quite dangerous when you realize how centrally owned it is. And to that note, I would urge everybody to not just automatically believe what you see and hear on the TV or in the magazine or in the newspaper, but to self-educate, to go and look for yourself. Take the responsibility for your own knowledge, by taking action and researching a little bit more. And being aware that there is censorship, and that there is a tendency for the media to overdramatize because that's how they sell,
Daisy 25:56
of course,
Kathi 25:57
and their aim is for you to become buyers, whether that is by being a viewer, or by purchasing the magazine, or by subscribing to their channel. That is their aim, they want to bring you on board as their audience and keep you with this drama. And meanwhile, underneath the drama, what else could be going on? You need to figure that out for yourselves and take responsibility for that learning, I believe.
Daisy 26:27
I can give you an example of a young man I worked with, a handsome really super nice young man and good heart and smart and educated. Not like that Harvard degree or something like that no, very broadly, he lived several continents, and he was a very peaceful person up to the time that he met a woman who became his wife, and the wife, she was quite a drama queen. And interestingly, he became angry. He became verbal, aggressive, he became loud, he became someone who really just smashed his fists on the table, which he would have never done before. So it rubs off. That is why it is so important, what do we surround ourselves with? If we were just aware how it sneaks in into our subconscious mind, we would never ever get close to many things. And the subliminal messages in advertisements or in messages in the news, in the paper, in literature, in movies, in soap opera.
Kathi 27:33
Yeah, for sure. And to your example, I think that's an important thing to think about, because my experiences sort of show me, when you're emotionally involved with somebody, it's so much easier to get pulled into that.
Daisy 27:49
Yeah, only when we don't set boundaries. In order to be able to set healthy boundaries, we need to know where they are. How can we know where our boundaries are? Well, we need to find out what are my values? When I know my values, that is when then I can actually develop my standards, the art of standing, how do I stand you see. We spoke about that another episode.
Kathi 28:12
Yes, we just recently released our episode on standards and values. And one of our earlier episodes is all about boundaries. So if that's a new thing to you, or you would like some help in figuring those out for yourself, please go back and have a listen to those episodes.
Daisy 28:30
Yes. So now I wonder how many of our listeners can see by now that we spend some time together, that it also can be an addiction to be a drama queen. And I'm serious when I say that, don't believe me, go and research. But you also said educate yourself. Don't believe me anything, go and do your own research. And then you can actually see, okay, I tend to agree with Daisy, or I think she was off, may happen too. Specific behavioral patterns within us, they produce specific bio chemicals in our brains. Now if we would, let's just rename this to our, let's say, personal cocktail in our brain. When we do that, quite often we get used to it, it is possible to detox from drama queen behavior, take some education, take some self-awareness. There are wonderful methods out there how you can speed up this process, then you don't need to sit and talk and do and work on yourself for 10 years. It's really in this speedy world, there are many things that you can achieve in a very short amount of time that is fundamental. So I really just only can invite you and inspire you with my whole heart. Work on yourself because when you invest in yourself, it's the greatest investment that you can ever do, and you will have the greatest return on investment as well.
Kathi 29:58
Yeah, absolutely, 100% agree with that. We hope today's little conversation about drama queens has helped you guys out there, whether it's a realization that maybe you do it a little bit, or maybe you're around people that are doing it, we just want to bring awareness to this as a concept and something that we both see throughout life. So let us know, has this helped you? What do you think? Are you ready to admit that maybe you're a drama queen some of the time?
Daisy 30:34
Yes, and maybe you realize, oh, well, actually, I see that now, the person that I'm observing or that I'm with or that I'm surrounded by, I think they have a tendency. So send them our way, we can help them listen to our podcast, and you can sign up for the workshops, we have a global program going on for different time zones, one for Australia, one for Europe, Central Europe, and one for the US. And just really learn how you function. When you understand how you operate, then you will be so glad to stop enabling others how they operate with you, because they can do whatever they want. It's not our purpose to stop anyone, or to change them. Who are we to change them? No. But we can then set healthy boundaries and live really a drama free life. I completely cleaned out my life like 11 years ago. And it is such a joy, it is such a joy. And sometimes there are some attempts, because I am attempted from many angles and then I say thank you so much, I don't think this is a good match. You see, this can be on a business level, there can be on a personal level, there can be in a group that can be in a societal community gathering. So we have the power to select and switch off the TV more often. and really go back into literature 100, 200, 300 years ago, and was there drama going on at times as well? Yes, sometimes drama does happen. And sometimes accidents do happen. And sometimes unacceptable events do happen. But how we respond to it. Go and look at how your ancestors would have handled it. Go, be curious, why not? And switch off that TV more often.
Kathi 32:21
Absolutely agree with that. And if you would like to do one of those workshops, Daisy mentioned just go to baldandblonde.live, there's a link right there that will lead you to the signup page. We'd love to see you, meet you in person and help you guys be your best versions. Thanks for joining us today, it has been another great episode, another great conversation. We appreciate your time. We appreciate you sharing our podcast with your family and friends. And we appreciate all of your support. in whatever form you give it to us, we're very grateful.
Daisy 32:58
And continue supporting us so we can remain ad-free. Thank you so much. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Kathi 33:05
That's it from us today. We will see you next week with another awesome conversation. We are Bald and Blonde
Daisy 33:13
Mindset Evolution. Talk to you next week.
Daisy 33:18
Thank you for tuning in to the Bald and Blonde Mindset Evolution podcast. If you love what you're hearing, please subscribe to our podcast. In our show notes, you'll find the link to our Facebook group where you can personally connect with Daisy and Kathi, and the link to our website where you can find all of our previous episodes and much more of goodies so you can get more value. Please leave us a review on Apple podcasts or Podchaser, that really helps out the show and helps us to get some powerful feedback from you. Talk to you soon.