SUMMARY KEYWORDS

guilt, guilty, feel, manipulated, people, corrective action, important, happening, forgiveness, person, step, jail, forgive, speeding, bad, act, podcast, bald, understand

SPEAKERS

Kathi, Daisy

Daisy 00:03

Bald and Blonde. Welcome to the Mindset Evolution podcast. Hear about tips, trick skills, tools, inspiration, mental hygiene, know what you want and how to create what you desire to achieve predictable results and create a content life wherever you are. And here are your hosts, Kathi Tait and Daisy Papp.

Kathi 00:27

And hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Bald and Blonde Mindset Evolution. I'm your host from Australia, Kathi, Tait, the baldwarrior and with me, as always, is your host from the Florida Keys. Daisy Papp! Hi, Daisy.

Daisy 00:44

Hello, my dear friend. Hi, how are you?

Kathi 00:47

I'm quite wonderful. Thank you. How are you?

Daisy 00:50

I'm quite wonderful too, especially when I see you, and I know we're up to recording and the moment I push the record button, it's always quite exciting. And I'm very much looking forward to another episode of Bald and Blonde.

Kathi 01:03

Me too. Me too. And as always, I'm going to throw another topic at Daisy, let's see what she has to say. Today, we are going to speak about guilt.

Daisy 01:15

Ah, yeah, yeah, guilt. Okay, I believe there's only a few people who may have never felt or endured the feeling or emotion of guilt. Mm-hmm. Very important topic.

Kathi 01:26

It's quite a yucky feeling too when you do get it. And I know that there are people out there that have trouble letting go of it. So I thought it was an important conversation to have. For their sake.

Daisy 01:38

I agree. Good topic.

Kathi 01:40

When I look back at my life, I can't say that I've ever been too trapped in guilt. For some reason, I've always been able to shake it off and let it go. I'm not sure where that comes from. But it's something that I've always been able to do, perhaps because I try to always look forward in my life and accept that what's happened has happened, find something good in it and just keep going. And that was my ethos for how I struggled through the years where I wasn't in a great place but had to cope as best I could. So that was what I did with it, in order to release it, I guess.

Daisy 02:19

That sounds very healthy, that's a good approach. Well, not everyone is capable of doing that. I believe when it comes to guilt, it is important to mention that, in my humble opinion, there's two types of guilt. One type of guilt is when I feel guilty, and the other type of guilt is when I make someone feel guilty. And I think there's quite some difference. And it's important to speak about both of them, in my humble opinion.

Kathi 02:49

That's a really great point, Daisy. And I think you're absolutely right, we do need to speak about both of them. And I'm actually going to say let's speak about the second one first, where you mentioned, you can make someone else feel guilty, which I think is actually super manipulative.

Daisy 03:10

Very much so, I agree. Well, making someone else feel guilty, what is actually the intention behind? I believe it is used most often, especially in order to induce them, the other one, the other party to do something. Well, you make me feel so terrible if you just don't lift your hand up right now, Kathi. And then you see, so it already, you may find that weird, but some people are really falling for that, especially those who may feel that, okay, I must do something for another person, because I don't want to be responsible for them feeling bad or feeling unhappy or feeling frustrated. Or there can be also that dynamic that oh if I don't do what the other person is manipulating me into doing, that then there might be an outbreak, there might be frustration or yelling, temper, and so forth. So I think it is important to realize first that actually, no one can make you feel anything. It is our own response towards someone else's behavior or outside circumstances. What I mean by outside circumstances is the things that happen outside of ourselves. Does that make sense?

Kathi 04:25

Yes, it does. And I was going to jump on the same words and say that in your example, you said, you made me feel and I was going say I don't know that anybody can make someone else feel, it's entirely up to us how we feel and how we respond.

Daisy 04:43

But there's a difference. If I punch you, then you feel it. I make you feel that hurt. Or if I tickle you, then probably your response will be laughing. So that is something very direct. But on the other hand when it's verbal or it's emotional manipulation, then it comes almost from a more gentle angle, as it seems and appears. But actually, it's really bad. I just judged it now as bad. I'm trying not to be judgmental. Nevertheless, I can distinguish what's good for me and what's not so good for me. So the person manipulating the other person trying to make them feel guilty, now, what is there. Actually, I believe that they are not openly communicating what they would really like to achieve, or what they are wishing for, what they would want. So in case of, for example, I just dramatized before, where I said, oh, you make me feel so horrible, and you make me feel useless and worthless when you don't put your hand up, then, actually, so what is it that I would want, what's behind that? Well, I could also say, Kathi, would you just please put your hand up, it would make me feel so good. And then I allow you to participate or not, that's freedom of choice.

Daisy 06:04

Now, when I feel guilty, let's speak about that a little bit. So usually what happens, it's our body's reaction, our body's response to the thoughts we are having around being guilty. I know of a man who was in jail because he did something that he was not supposed to do, and it was illegal, and he hurt someone really badly. And in the meantime, while he was in jail, he started studying all kinds of neuroscience and psychology and he became a minister actually because he became a god loving person, so he turned towards God, which I'm not judging as good or bad, I find it admirable that he was seeking more knowledge because he felt so guilty for what he did. And it was very apparent to feel guilty because, from the inside of the jail, I have the feeling that it's quite an every moment, reminder that you did something da, da, da. So he got over his guilt, by forgiving himself, but he could only do that by understanding what he was doing when he was doing it, and what was behind the fact of him acting a certain way. And then he started learning other ways to express himself. He started anger management, he started self-development, he started mindfulness, he started truly developing some healthy coping skills, instead of those he had before that led him eventually, to act in a way that made him end up in jail, which was illegal, and because it was a crime, what he did. And then when he learned that, he was able to forgive himself, he asked for forgiveness to those people he harmed, and that is when he was able to free himself. Now, if someone today reminds him of the crime he committed, there's no emotional response with him anymore. Why? Because he was able to forgive himself, because he now trusts himself that he will never, ever do that again. So there's also that trust, I think, that is a very important aspect to letting go of the guilt.

Kathi 08:20

Certainly. And I can also see that forgiveness is a big part of this too. And when I say that, I mean self-forgiveness.

Daisy 08:29

Or also forgiving the other person, for example, I can forgive you upfront that you may or may not put up your hand when I'm asking you to do so.

Kathi 08:37

Yeah. So the I make someone feel guilty type of guilt really is manipulation that is often quite subtle, and I think also that there's probably a fair amount of people in the world who have grown up with this in their household from a parent and are therefore conditioned to it, and it would probably be a lot harder one to recognize it, but to, to stop being manipulated that way, because I would imagine that if it's happened to you your whole life, and you don't really know any different, you don't really perhaps understand it completely. It could be hard to stop it happening. Like how would somebody who says in that situation, you can't just always cut a person off, can you? So let's say there's a woman and her mother's been manipulating her whole life, and she's an adult now, she's starting to feel like it's really dragging her down. What could we suggest to her with some easy steps to take for her own mental health?

Daisy 09:47

Step number one is awareness. Until I do not know what's going on, when I do not recognize that I am being manipulated, then how could I possibly take action upon it? There is no real reason for me acting in a different way. So therefore, I believe it is a good idea to become familiar, make yourself familiar with more healthy behaviors, I'd say. Now, how can you do that? Well, read, listen to our podcast, maybe study something around these topics, sign up for that workshop, go to the seminar, do that self-development, because I believe that most people who were manipulated most of their life, they may not even know that they were manipulated most of their life because they're so accustomed to, and it's so familiar to them. So in order for them to make the familiar, unfamiliar, they first need to understand what is it actually that's happening there. Because most likely they have some frustration going on around that, without even being aware that they were manipulated. So first step is always awareness, until I cannot see it, how will I be able to fix it? That's what I say in order to fix it, we must understand it. In order to heal it, we must feel it. That's my humble approach to that. Now, I give you a very simple example, I had a problem under my kitchen sink the other day. And I had no idea where the dripping came from, how can I possibly fix it when I don't know where the water comes from? I now know what it was, was the tiny dishwasher that I had. So a new one is on its way. So first, I needed to understand oh, so what is happening there? Because otherwise, how will I be able to possibly fix something when I'm not aware of what's going on? Same with the guilt or the manipulation?

Kathi 11:43

Yeah, that makes complete sense. So step one is awareness.

Daisy 11:48

Yes. And surround yourself with people who are healthy in their minds. Not that manipulative people are sick in their mind, I'm not saying that at all. But they have habits and they have behaviors that are unhealthy. So I think it is a very healthy thing to do from time to time, take an inventory. Who are you surrounding yourself with? Certainly, in family settings, as you mentioned before, it is not so easy to cut someone off. But we can still distance ourselves, and we can establish healthier boundaries. We can change our communication. And we can share with others, look, I wonder, are you trying to make me feel bad? Are you trying to make me feel badly about me not raising my hand now? Put it on the table! Spit it out, put it there so that it becomes visible! Let's stop shoving things under the carpet. I know some people say swiping, well, I say shoving.

Kathi 12:49

Sweep, swipe, sweeps all the same, isn't it? It's under the carpet is the point.

Daisy 12:54

Yeah

Kathi 12:54

Yeah, I really like that. So awareness of the situation and the manipulation happening, surround yourself with people who will lift you up and who have healthy mindsets. Distance yourself from the manipulator, establish some healthy boundaries, and then implement some better communication strategies.

Daisy 13:15

Absolutely, yes, thank you for taking notes, I would have not been able to put them out there one more time in this order.

Kathi 13:22

I have to take notes because my memory is not as great as my note-taking. So yeah, I like that. So that's really great about the second type of guilt, I make someone else feel guilty, or I'm being manipulated with guilt. So let's talk about when it's ourselves because this is super common as well. In fact, I would dare say that every person in the world has felt guilt at some point or another. But I also know some people get very stuck in that guilt and cannot release themselves, no matter how many years go by. And I find that incredibly sad. And if we could give them a couple of steps to move themselves slightly, I think that might give them a little push to get out there and start really working on themselves, because it's almost self-punishment.

Daisy 14:14

Self-sabotage, self-punishment.

Kathi 14:17

Yeah.

Daisy 14:18

And then the redundance of it over and over again. Well, I'm not sure if I'm the right person to give you something or to give our listeners something to move them out slightly or slowly. I can't do that. But I have something that probably can shift it in an instant.

Kathi 14:35

Okay, well, that's even better. (laughter)

Daisy 14:39

Okay,

Kathi 14:40

Let's do it.

Daisy 14:41

Thank you. Well, had you known better, you would have done better, period. Let me expand on this a little bit. So when I did what I did, that was maybe not so good, not so great, at that point in time I was capable of exactly just simply doing that. So had I known better, would have I not done better? I think it is such a logical step towards forgiveness, and because guilt and forgiveness, they go hand in hand. I never thought of it this way, but I probably say that about myself that I cannot stop feeling guilty about something, although I rarely feel guilty because I do behave in my everyday life the best way I can. Do I sometimes slip? Yes, I do. But then I can correct it, the moment I slip, and take corrective actions as soon as possible so that the guilt does not even build up. I mean, if I'm driving too fast, and I'm speeding, and I hit a deer, and I hit a dog, and I hit, I don't know what else with rabbits on the road, I cannot really take corrective action in that moment when I kill the animals, but I can change my behavior, so it will not happen again. But it's really a tricky aspect of that. Okay, so is that really true, so the person who killed someone and sits in jail, they would have done better if they would have known better. And I was asked that before, and where it actually comes from it comes like from 25 years ago, when I was sitting in class, studying NLP and psychological skills and really wonderful aspects to help myself improve and help improve others as well. Consequently, then, is that my psychology professor who is teaching NLP master class, he said, well, yes, even a murderer has his good reason why he's doing what he's doing. And I was so upset. I said, I got up and I said, if that's what you're trying to teach us, this cannot be, you must explain that to me because I disagree, because what's wrong is wrong. And he explained to me that I would like to add something before I say what he said, Whatever is done, and it's wrong, there's nothing that can make it right. Not now, not in the future, not in the past. So if I did something wrong, it will not make it right. But how I relate to it, and how I develop myself, so I will not fall into the same behavior again, doing the same thing, acting the same way.

So actually what the teacher said, the psychology professor, Dr. Gyula Bíró, is his name, very nice man, wise man. And he mentioned that humans do something because they want to feel better, whatever it is they are doing. So for example, when I'm speeding, maybe my reason is I want to get there earlier, or I want to avoid being late. Or, for example, when I'm drinking another glass of wine that I should not, for example, then what is the driver behind it? What's driving us, so the driving force is stronger. And the driving force itself is trying to solve something to make it better, make us feel better or make getting us closer to a solution.

Kathi 18:08

That makes sense. There's not much that beats a good wine buzz (laughter).

Daisy 18:14

I did not say it in this way to actually inspire anyone to over-drink, because that's unhealthy behavior as well. But I believe it is important to see that in regards of okay, so had I known better, I would have done better at that moment of time when I did what I did while I was doing it. It helps us to really forgive that ourselves, so not remain stuck in the guilt. And then there must be a next step, and that's corrective action. If there's something I need to ask forgiveness, then go ahead and reach out. If there's something I can repair because I dropped a flowerpot from the balcony, then I can go and get them a replacement. If I stepped on your foot, I can say sorry. And then there's one more step to it. How can I avoid repeating it again? Because so many wise men and women in our human past, over the centuries and millennia said a mistake is only a mistake when you keep repeating it. Otherwise, it's experience. There are many ways how you can word it. I say mistakes do not exist, I say it's another try, unless I stop. When I don't try again and do it better, then it could turn into a mistake that I made once.

Kathi 19:35

Yes, and there is a whole episode on mistakes do not exist. If you have not heard it yet, jump back and listen to it, it's a beauty. So I agree with this doctor. I also believe that had we known better, we would have done better, and I relate this to my experience as a daughter and a mother. I think that as mothers, we often have a bit of guilt around things that we could have done better in bringing up our children. And I know that when I was looking at my childhood and the trauma that I suffered, and there was a point in time where I was quite angry with my mother because after my sister died, she emotionally shut down on us. And for a while, I've resented that and felt like that had caused a lot of my problems. But in my self-development, and in my learning, I came to realize that my mum was doing the best she could at the time, she'd just lost her child, I can't even imagine how horrific that must have been for her.

Daisy 20:47

Yeah

Kathi 20:48

And so when you put that in context, it was then much easier for me to understand that she acted in the best way that she knew how, for her own self-preservation at the time, she was just doing what she could. And then I later had my son, and he grew up to be an adult, and I've had conversations with him because I had bad parenting moments, trust me, a couple of them, we laugh about now, but at the time, they were terrible. And I had a little bit of guilt around some of those things that I actually talked to my son about when he became an adult. And he said, Mum, I know that you were doing the best you could at the time because you were coping with so much. And that brought me a great amount of peace, having that conversation with my son because I could then put to rest what I felt I should have done better because there wasn't any way for me to do better at the time, I didn't know. You know, you can't beat yourself up if you don't know, what you've got to do is pick yourself up and go and learn.

Daisy 21:57

Mm-hm

Kathi 21:57

And that's what I ended up doing. So I just wanted to share that with everybody out there. Because I know that as mothers and probably as fathers too, we do carry around some guilt about some mistakes we made when our kids were little or maybe you've got resentment against your own parents for something that they did when you were growing up and you felt like it affected you. I do think the answer is this one saying, had they know and better, they would have done better, because I know I would have done better if I had known better. And that comes from my heart. And I think sometimes we just need to act with, understand with some compassion instead of with judgment. But when you talk about an example of somebody who's in jail, for having done something illegal and perhaps violent, yes, they're in jail for a reason, but that doesn't mean that person can never change. Doesn't mean that they're always going to be the person that committed that act. I firmly believe that we can evolve and become better humans if we put our minds to it. And it's interesting because I know that nowadays if you had that same lesson, you probably wouldn't have stood up and demanded that he explained himself anymore because you know what you know now.

Daisy 23:15

Yes

Kathi 23:15

So it's just interesting to even see that about ourselves how much we've grown over the last couple of decades because we can see so much more and understand so much more. And we're aware of so much more. And that's I guess what we're trying to do with this podcast is welcome you into that world of having different perspectives.

Daisy 23:38

And here's how I don't feel guilty about me getting up. Well, I did the best I could back then because I couldn't fathom what he was trying to explain. And I was impatient to listen his further words. So I wanted to know the answer now, and I'm smiling about that. And now here's the thing, back to the parenting. Well, we were not born as parents. We become parents,

Kathi 24:05

and there's no rulebook, no manual (laughter).

Daisy 24:08

And even if there was, every child is different. And every circumstance is different, the surroundings are different. And so, therefore, it is important to find specific healthy rules though, to live by. That's one of the reasons why I wrote the five plus two, the love formula book. Because it is so simple when you start living by specific, not rules because usually, people don't really like the word rules. But it is something like a standard or like this formula five plus two points. When you start developing behavior more and more likely to behave more and more often based on the five plus two, you will most likely not be in situations where you need to feel guilty. Guilt will be gone unless of course accidents do happen. And I'm sorry, it was not my purpose to drop your flower vase on the floor that was dear to you. I'm sorry, I wholeheartedly am sorry. And I wonder what can I do to make up for it? So I think instead of remaining stuck in the guilt, it is very important to get into action. So what is it that I can do to repair it? To restore it. to, I don't know, what else, renovated if I did something really bad? Or just simply say, sorry?

Kathi 25:31

Yeah, sometimes I think just owning up is the first step.

Daisy 25:35

Yeah, the owning up is very important as a step. It's not enough, though, to lessen the burden of guilt, I believe. Owning up itself is a step as a steppingstone, I believe there must be some corrective action. And when someone did something to us, let's say, and they feel guilty. I had it happen the other day, I receive a message I'm so sorry because they missed something. And it was a deadline, and I was not happy with it. But I wasn't upset either. I took care of it. And they really sent me a very apologetic message. And I said I accept your apology. That's also a very important step. Because if I would have now remained mute and not respond to them, I would support maybe, or maybe not, them feeling guilty.

Kathi 26:23

Yes. But here, I have to interject something like because I don't think that forgiveness has to rely on it being accepted. I believe forgiveness you do for yourself.

Daisy 26:34

I agree. I agree. This was an example in an interaction with someone I had just recently. Yeah, because you can also forgive someone's guilt, or your own guilt when they are not alive anymore. It's possible too. There are the tools, you can do that, because it's very important to remember that there are so modern tools, modern neuro scientifically proven and backed tools that really help. We're not in the 1900s anymore. We're in 2021, and let's use these tools to our advantage and, and really up our development, it's so much easier now to develop faster, and to heal faster our inner world and to get rid of guilt, and also stop making other people feel guilty.

Daisy 27:23

And some people also have the habit that they always feel guilty. So it can be also kind of a habit for them, because they're so used to it. So now it's my fault, now it's my fault. Oh, yeah, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I do remember a client of mine who said sorry for nothing. So when I said something oh, yeah, no, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And it was quite a journey to help them understand that okay, so how do you evaluate something to be sorry for? What is it based on? And then we cleaned up some of his memories that he had around guilt, and the parents were quite successful in guilting him and shaming him. And, well, we cleaned that out, and he's living a much healthier and much happier life now. So it is possible to get rid of the guilt, even if there is a reason to feel guilty for, or even if it was just made up, either way from others or yourself. It is a burden that is really wearing us down. And I think it is absolutely time to change our behavior. So we won't repeat anything to feel that guilt.

Kathi 28:34

Yeah, I absolutely agree. And we hope that this discussion today has been helpful for you guys out there.

Daisy 28:41

I'm giving my little humble experience freely. And I wish for you that you can be inspired to become a self-developer. It's such a worthwhile journey. And there's so many ways to really speed it up. It does not need to be long and lengthy and hard and painful. That's in the past. And today we have so wonderful methods where it becomes so joyful, actually. And a joy-filled journey. I wish you come on board.

Kathi 29:12

Well, I definitely think that's happening. Daisy, we are being heard all over the world now which is super, super exciting. We thank you for your time and your energy with sharing our podcast with your family and friends. We thank you for your support and your feedback. As always, don't forget you can find us on Facebook at BaldandBlonde at SelfRecoding® or at Bald warrior and on Instagram at baldandblonde.live or come visit us at our website baldandblonde.live. You can very easily fill out the comment page and say hi to us. We'd love to hear from you, hear your feedback, hear ideas, hear how you are doing in your life and if our podcast has helped you. And so with that, we will say goodbye for another week and see you next week for another amazing episode from Bald and Blonde

Daisy 30:04

Mindset Evolution. Bye, bye.

Daisy 30:08

Thank you for tuning into the Bald and Blonde Mindset Evolution podcast. If you love what you're hearing, please subscribe to our podcast. In our show notes. You'll find the link to our Facebook group where you can personally connect with Daisy and Kathi and the link to our website where you can find all of our previous episodes and much more of goodies so you can get more value. Please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Podchaser that really helps out the show and helps us to get some powerful feedback from you. Talk to you soon