SUMMARY KEYWORDS
grieving, grief, life, loss, funerals, tragic, brother, home, mother, left, people, father, listeners, moment, control, years, accident, tragic event, thought
SPEAKERS
Kathi, Daisy
Daisy 00:03
Bald and Blonde, welcome to the Mindset Evolution podcast. Hear about tips, tricks, skills, tools, inspiration, mental hygiene, know what you want and how to create what you desire to achieve predictable results, and create a content like wherever you are. And here are your hosts, Kathi Tait and Daisy Papp.
Kathi 00:27
And welcome everybody to another episode of Bald and Blonde Mindset Evolution. I'm Kathi Tait, the baldwarrior, your host from Down Under, and with me, as always is your host from Florida Keys. Daisy Papp. Hi, Daisy,
Daisy 00:44
Hello, my dear friend, Kathi, Down Under, and hello to the world from the Florida Keys. I'm so glad to see you. And I wish to embrace the entire globe because I'm filled with love, and I'm here to share it.
Kathi 00:59
I'm glad to hear that Daisy and thank you too, you guys out there for tuning in, once again, we love having you with us. And we love giving you topics that really, I think reach all of you, regardless of where you live in those 51 countries or what culture you've grown up in. I think a lot of our topics really just reach all of you because they're so individually experienced. And I have another one of those topics for you today. And as always, Daisy doesn't know what it's going to be. So here it is, drumroll.
Daisy 01:36
I'm sitting on pins and needles and I'm jumping up and down my chair. So bring it on, Kathi.
Kathi 01:44
It was a cheerful giggly introduction, but it's quite a serious subject and one that has touched us both. And that is grief.
Daisy 01:54
Well, that's a big one. Yes, grief,
Kathi 01:56
it certainly is a big one. It is a huge one, and I'm not even sure how we're going to tackle this yet myself. But I know that it's something that needs to be spoken about. I know how deeply it can hurt. And I also know from my own experience, how you can get stuck in it. And so that's why I'm bringing it to the conversation today.
Daisy 02:19
I appreciate your courage to bring it on. I appreciate you choosing this topic. And I totally agree with you that yes, it affects all of us to a degree sooner or later. And so grief, as I would define it is a deep sadness, a deep level of sadness related to something we had, and no longer have. And that can be humans, that can be a pet, that can be a location, that can be a material thing. And it also can be something that we always wanted to have and we are grieving not having it. So there are many aspects to grief, so I believe humbly.
I would like to share a little bit from my own personal life, which I rarely do, I believe, here on this platform. So when I was eight, I was introduced to grief beyond my wildest, horrific imaginations that I as an eight-year-old girl could have possibly imagined. And it was when my father and my mother and my grandparents on my father's side, and I wanted to travel from A to B. And my father decided last minute Daisy, you stay at home. And so they left and I was saddened and I was grieving actually that I couldn't go with them because I loved the destination and I loved my grandparents. Of course, I love my parents as well. But it was okay because I stayed home with my brother and I felt it was a safe place. My brother was seven years older than I was and he was absolutely my, my second hero after my father. And so they left and the next morning, my brother and I, we got up and made breakfast and then left for school. And when I came home, it was arranged that I would go to my neighbor's house that were friends of my parents, very dear friends to me, and they had two children. They had a daughter a little older than I and they had a son a little younger than my brother.
So we children all well grew up with two sets of parents because we did a lot of things together. We went on vacations together, we celebrated together we played together. We went on weekend trips, and we were very close. So to me, it was my second family in this regard. And it was arranged that after school I would go home to them and I knew the habit of the neighbor's husband so the father of my childhood girlfriend, and I knew exactly he was so punctual, like really clockwise, you knew that five minutes afternoon, he would arrive at home because he walked from his office to home to have lunch there. And when I arrived, it was maybe like 1115 or 1120 in the morning, and he was already there, opening the door. And I saw something red in his eyes. And that looked really weird to me. And so he sat me there on the chairs that lead towards their living room. And he said to me, Daisy, something terrible happened. And my brother was there to also with red eyes from crying, which was also very unusual. And I felt instantly, something's really off.
So I sat there on the chairs, leading to the dining room and the neighbor father, so he told me, Daisy, there was an accident. And all we know, two people died and two are in the hospital, and we do not know more, we don't know who it is who died and we don't know who was hospitalized. Now, as an eight-year-old, of course, it's not really easy to grasp what that means. And honestly, I started bartering with God, who might be still alive. And actually, I did not do well on this because it was exactly the opposite. My grandmother died three hours after the accident, and my father died seven hours after the accident. My grandfather was in critical condition. And no one knew if my mother will make it or not. This is the time before we had cell phones and telefax, and it was quite difficult to get information from police, and then we had to send a lawyer there. And I was an eight-year-old, what did I know. But what I realized that from that evening prior, where my father turned to me to stay at home, which actually saved my life, and the moment when I heard of the accident, my life changed forever.
Now, I remember when I was a little girl, I knew the sound of my father's car. So even sitting in the house with closed windows and doors, I heard when he was driving up the hill, and when he would park the car, so I knew Oh, Daddy's home. And actually, for years, I was listening eagerly with open ears if I'd hear the car, but it never came. Now, my mother at that time, she was in the hospital for six months and endured 32 surgeries that actually helped her to walk again. And when she came home, of course, she was not the same anymore either. And the family was never again, the same. And all the play and going on a bicycle ride with a family or going to picnic or going into the forest for walks and looking at the deer and watching rabbits and making a campfire. This was all gone from one day to the other. And I was grieving that very deeply. But I didn't know I did. So I went on to boarding school, and that was quite a challenging time, and then I grieved home because I wanted to go back home, I wish that everything would be as it was the day before my father left in the car, and it was not.
Now I make a fast forward to when I'm 17 years old. And my mother, my brother and my godfather wanted to fly out to Switzerland to Geneva. And I was supposed to go with them. And that was exciting because of course the 17-year-old flying out to Geneva just for a long weekend, I thought that was quite cool, and of course, I love to travel and fly with my brother who was a pilot. And last-minute my mother turns around, and it didn't dawn on me at that moment, because there were years in between. and she turns towards me and she said to Daisy, it's better you stay at home, there's too much stress. It's too stressful and you stay home and you know what we see on Monday, we will be back and just make yourself a comfy weekend and see you then. There was another little additional part, but this does not belong in this podcast episode. We can speak about that later, what else she said. And so I spent the weekend and on Monday evening, I received a call on my brother's phone line. There's a gentleman asking me so are you home alone? And I thought I may be in the wrong movie, although I think the movie wasn't out back then it was in '85 and I didn't want to say because it was winter. It was just before the holiday season and I thought, who is that weirdo asking me on my brother's phone if I was alone. So I said yes I am, so he said okay, I talk to you later. He hung up, maybe an hour and a half later, maybe one hour later, as I recall, he called back and I pick up again the phone and I say, hello, my name is Daisy Papp, this is the phone of Santo Papp and can I take a message, my brother is not here yet. And the same man was on the phone and he said, so are you alone. And I had a friend who came over, so I was not alone anymore, but I was 17 and I felt weird to admit that I have a friend over being 17. So all the conditioning kind of showed up. And I said, no, well, I'm not alone, I have a friend over. And then he says, well, I need to tell you the plane crashed shortly after takeoff in Geneva.
And again, my life changed in that instant, and did I grieve what I had before? Yes. And it opened up all those wounds that I had prior. Therefore, it appeared even much bigger than it was already. I survived, of course. And today, I help people survive tragic like that, and incidents and accidents and being survivors and dealing with survivor guilt, and so forth, and I truly love doing it. But I do know that I was in grief for years after that, until I met a wonderful doctor lady who saved my life literally. And then my life changed again, in an instant, but in quite a different direction.
Do I believe that I know about grief? Some, yes, I do believe. Do I believe that in one-on-one sessions or in groups, I can help people overcome grief? Yes, I can. I feel I have the practice, and I have the knowledge and the tools and skills, and the integrity of doing so. Now what actually happens when we're grieving, there's an incident or an accident, that loss happens once, right? It's not an ongoing loss. It's not like the plane is crashing 24/7, my lifetime long. But it does in my head. And because of what's happening in my own head, the grief can get easily stuck. Now there is a cultural aspect to it as well, that I'd like to add here. In the society I grew up in, the Western society, I'd like to call it a generalization, although I don't really enjoy generalizing. But we have a very specific way of grieving. I remember the days when my father died, my mother needed to wear for one year, black clothing, because it was the grieving year. And so she did. And after that, you were allowed to maybe use a white collar, or maybe use a brighter handbag. But before that everything needed to be black, which reminds us also 24/7 almost, right, at least during these 24 hours that we are awake, reminds us of the tragic and the tragedy. So there's no real escape. And then it is almost indoctrinated into us that you're not allowed to laugh, you're supposed to grieve. So now what happens is that we adjust easily to habits once they are established. But after wearing for one year black clothing, reminding yourself of the tragedy that happened, and not being allowed to find any joy because the moment you would even feel a little joy, maybe read something in a book or in a paper or me as a little girl, maybe I did something that was funny, but my mother didn't dare to laugh. Because then the shame would kick in. Oh, I'm not allowed to do that. So it's very complex. Now there are other cultures where they celebrate life when someone is passing. So it's a very different approach and the grieving and their approach towards grieving is very different from what I have learned and what I grew up in.
Kathi 14:08
Yeah, I find that super interesting because I have thought about my own funeral, to be honest, a couple of times in my life. And one of the things I decided I really wanted was none of this casket, let's sing hymns and cry together stuff. I want a big party celebrating who I was and the fun I loved to have and the way I tried to live my life and tell stories. That's what I envisage to be a great way to celebrate somebody's life. I have to say I do not enjoy the Western tradition of funerals whatsoever.
Daisy 14:51
No, I'm very much with you. I've been on way too many funerals in my life, from an early age on and interesting that you mentioned that my mother actually had a will. And she was explicitly demanding that she wanted everyone who appears and attends her funeral to come in colorful clothing. Now I'm talking 1985, and it was winter, one day before Christmas, that the funerals happened because we buried my brother, my mother, and my godfather the same day. So no one wanted to actually agree to her will and everyone arrived in black. And I don't blame them. Nowadays, maybe it's different. I don't know how people handle it in Australia. I will not demand how people will dress at my funeral, but I have made up my mind and I am going to leave with a big bang, because what I want to be cremated, and I want my ashes to put on fireworks and then up in the sky and phew and make a beautiful firework. So I have it written down several people know about it, so if ever, you hear that I'm leaving this planet, for any reason, please just light firework for me. And that will bring me joy in my memory.
Daisy 16:10
Now not everyone can do that. I believe it has to do with how much we heal the grief, I would have not been able to think about that when I was 20 or 22 or 24. I could not because I was still grieving. Now usually what happens is that we not only grieve the person who left or who's lost, can be a pet too, some people are really attached to their animals, and I totally understand that. Now, not to compare the value of loss or the measure of loss, that's very individual and subjective, and I cannot judge that and I'm not willing to. So when we're grieving, we're also grieving ourselves, who we were in those times when they were still around. Or someone who loses, let's say their car repossessed, and then they are not only grieving the car, but all those moments how they felt, as they felt who they were while they were driving the car or owning the car, or actually having borrowed it from a bank or leasing company. So it is not only that we are grieving someone who's lost, but we're grieving the moments that we believed still to have, to come, and we're grieving ourselves who we were in those settings, in the situations, in the family surroundings with the loss together.
Kathi 17:44
Yeah, I 100% agree with you. And I like the encouragement to think of it from these different perspectives. I know that when I divorced my second husband, I realized that I had to grieve the loss of that marriage because it had not worked out the way I had thought it was going to. So I think that the awareness of there being so many types or ways that we do grieve is in itself really great. Because it seems to me that it's about a loss, whether it's a loss that happens we had control over but often the loss is something we don't have control over, and that I would imagine makes the grief even tougher, or deeper, maybe, because the loss of control is hard for humans. Let's face it,
Daisy 18:43
Let's face it, the control is an illusion.
Kathi 18:48
Oh, I agree with that. And I guess maybe some of my perspective is coming because I've had death in my life where it's been sudden, but also death that has taken a couple or more than a couple of years to unfold. And so I've experienced both of those and I think the loss of control is definitely a big thing for people. I think that we even when we're not talking about death, maybe we're talking about a car that got repossessed, and that can make you then not only feel grief for not having your prized possession, but also grief for the experiences you won't get to have and also maybe around now you're a person that couldn't keep up the finance, so you're disappointing yourself. And there's a whole, I think intricate interplay of emotions that goes on behind the loss, right?
Daisy 19:47
Well, life itself is not really controllable. It's an illusion that we believe we have control. That's how insurance companies make so much money because they give us that impression as if we had some level of control, but we actually don't. And there are other business concepts, we're using the same scheme, let's put it this way. And I believe it is important to realize that it's not about controlling, it's about losing control from the get-go, realizing it is out of my control, and therefore making peace with it, and enjoying the right here, right now because otherwise, one day I will grieve my life because I was grieving things that I either didn't have yet, or I had once, and I'm continuing grieving it all my life, and then I didn't live it.
Kathi 20:40
Yeah
Daisy 20:41
Because let's refocus for a moment. Dear listeners out there, which moment do you have? Right here. Now, which one do you have? Let me help you. Right here right now. And a few seconds ago, when I asked you, which moment do you have, it's already gone. You don't have that anymore. So we really have this right here, right now only, that's the only thing we have. And when we grasp that, and realize it as a concept and make peace with it, then it also becomes easier to handle grief and loss. Will it be painful to lose a loved one? Yes. Most likely. Will it be torturous to make those phone calls and inform family and friends? Yeah. Will there be times of deep sadness? Yes, but you always have the right here right now. And you can make a clear decision. Let's say someone died, let's speak about a person or a pet, not a car. But let's speak about a person first we lost and we loved and we're grieving. If you really love them, because your love doesn't end because their life ended, agreed? It's just the reciprocal reception that you would like to receive back from them. Now you can make a very clear decision, you either want to continue grieving, make yourself miserable, and actually take away from the beauty of that relation or relationship or love you had, or you can make a very clear decision and say, look, I'm in pain. It's painful, it's saddening me, and I don't know what to do, I don't know how to handle it, but I will do my best because I want to honor the relationship we had. And I want to keep that love we exchanged and I'm honoring all the memories, and I will keep them as precious treasures in my heart.
Daisy 22:35
Now, let me ask you out there listeners when you're leaving this planet, and eventually, you will, because the moment we are born, let's face it, we're destined to die. We just don't know when, luckily. So would you really like to be grieved about? Or would you like to be appreciated for the time you shared with those that miss you after you're gone? Give it a thought? If you feel that you want to be grieved for a long time, then maybe it's a good idea to make yourself inventory where it comes from? Is it conditioned? Or is it maybe because are their emotions, energy in motion, where you say yes, and they should be grieving me for 20 years because I did so well, and I did so good to them, and they never appreciated me during my lifetime. Well, when it's a question of venge and revenge and vengeance, so maybe that's the direction to have a look at. But I believe that when we think of it in a grateful way, and thankful way, don't you really want the loved ones you dearly love to be content and of course miss you, that's okay, but not grieve you in a way that's devastating for them. Why would you not want them to actually keep you alive in their memories, as often as possible with a smile on their face, and warmth around their heart, mmh? I think that's a very good thing to put things in proportions and put it in order a little bit. I think it's a good idea to evaluate, that might be helpful.
Kathi 24:10
Yeah, I 100% agree with that and the whole grieving thing takes so much negative energy. I really, this is very personal, I think perhaps because I really don't like funerals. I've been to way too many and I find them completely overwhelming and depressing. And they don't make me want to think about the rest of my life with joy like that. I feel like I've been pulled down into a pit of just sadness. And I think maybe that's why this makes grief so personal for me in wanting to talk to our listeners out there about it because I don't want to see people get pulled down into this place of grief where they can't see the joy in life and celebrate the life that was? I think sometimes we get too caught up in, they're not there for me anymore. But really that person that has gone, I'm not sure they care about their funeral, they're gone. Maybe don't keep that sentence in, (laughter) I don't know.
Daisy 25:21
Well, I have no proof either way. I have no proof if they care or if they don't, I don't know.
Kathi 25:29
That is true. I get the feeling that they probably wouldn't. But that's just my view.
Daisy 25:37
Well, we will find out eventually one day. And then, that's the question, what do we do with that information? Well, so back to the grief and funerals, yes, funerals in our civilization, in our society are meant to be sad and dramatic and tragic and heavy. So in our society, funerals are meant to be tragic and heavy and wearing you down and being heavy on you and making you sad and making you maybe feel depressed and not looking at the bright side of life because you're here right now and you're supposed to grieve because you're good griever at this moment, that's why you were invited to the funeral in the first place. So I'm not sure if there is not a way to disassociate a little bit, does it still sadden me when I go to funerals nowadays, yes. And I know that there will be a few funerals more to come in my life eventually. And they will not be like the party come together that I really enjoy or a nice conversation, or let's just sit here and watch the sunset or the moonrise, or just the ocean or the waves or the wind blowing through the palm leaves, I'm certain that it will not be as enjoyable. But in the meantime, I can prepare myself and say, okay, so actually, what I have right here, right now is the only thing I have, it's out of my control, I have feelings, and it's okay to have these feelings. I feel emotional, yes, my energies are in motion, it's okay. And remember the key, it will pass, it's very important. And then when you attend a funeral, or you look out to the outlook of your life, towards your future, and you say yeah, whatever will happen, I know it will pass too. So, therefore, it already lowers the level of fear, I believe, because let's face it, and I repeated here one more time, it's out of our control. So stop focusing on what you cannot control, stop wasting your energy, stop wasting your joy, your minutes, your hours, your week, your month, your years on something that you cannot control, and start more focusing on what you can control within you. Because you can not control what's happening out there. You can control how you evaluate it, and how you relate to it. That's my humble idea on this topic.
Kathi 28:15
And of course, how you respond to it. And I think that's a super important note to end on, is to remember that it will pass. And that one concept, that one thought, I know got me through some pretty, pretty hard stuff in my 20s, was realizing that if I had that mindset, I could get through almost anything. Well, everything I got through everything, I'm here, so...
Daisy 28:45
I like that. And that's what I used to say to clients of mine. I said, well, and I'd like to invite your listeners out there, I have good news for you. You have a 100% success rate. When you're listening to this podcast right here right now, wherever you are, you have a 100% success rate. Why? Because you're here, no matter what happened in your past and no matter what happens in five minutes, five years, 50 years, five decades, five centuries, I don't know. But you're right here right now and whatever happened in your life in the past, you survived it somehow. Was it pleasant at all times, necessarily? Probably not. But you're here. When you continue focusing on yes, I have 100% success rate. Actually, I have a client of mine, she's a lovely young lady and I had her put it as a reminder on her phone so that it rings and reminds her every three hours during the day, that 100% success rate.
Daisy 28:46
I love it. I love it. And it's absolutely true.
Daisy 28:50
Well, I do know that listeners out there might be just right now in the process of grieving a loved one, or maybe several loved ones. And I'm not trying to minimize the sadness or the tragedy of it. Please, if you can go and get help, the sooner you get help, the better you will be off. There is a very important rule of thumb, let's say it was a tragic event, or you just learned it tragically, usually when someone passes, it is perceived as tragic. Do not under any circumstances go to sleep immediately, do not. There are studies out there where it shows clearly that after trauma, when people stay awake longer, then they can process it in the part of memory that then is not going to remain present. When you go to sleep short term after a trauma or traumatic event that may be the loss of someone or it can be another tragic event, you witness something, for example, then there are studies that show that PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder is much, much higher in those who went to sleep earlier. So they do that with soldiers as well, when they were in combat, they don't allow them to sleep. And interestingly, when you look at some, like 50, 60, 70-year-old movies, black and white flicks, that you can see when something happened, and let's say the lady of the house, she was so panicking, and then she fainted. And then the doctor came to the house and then they gave her an injection to put her calm. Very bad idea. Very bad idea. I suggest it is a good idea to do your research. Don't trust me. Don't believe me. Don't listen to me. Well, please listen to me. But don't trust me, go home and do your research, pick out your phone, your tablet, your computer, and do some research on that. And that will help you to handle traumatic events, dramatic events, and grief and loss in a different way.
Kathi 31:49
Well, there you have it, everybody. We do hope that this has been an interesting discussion for you today. It has been a bit of a bonus time episode, but we are happy to bring a full discussion to the table. Please do let us know your feedback and your thoughts on this subject. We're always interested in what our listeners have to say.
Daisy 32:12
Yes, sure. And if you need help, then reach out and I'm here to help. I love helping. And if it's someone listening who was affected by any floods in Europe recently, then please contact me I speak German, I speak English, I speak Hungarian. I can do group sessions. In cases of emergency, I'm offering free group sessions over video calls and I'm more than happy to help out. So when there's any tragedy that is involving more than one person or two, then please reach out and I'm more than happy to support your journey through that grief in a healthier way, to my best knowledge and my humble being.
Kathi 32:53
Well, thank you Daisy and that's an amazing offer. So if you'd like to get in touch with Daisy, to talk more about that jump over to our website baldandblonde.live or Daisy's website selfrecoding.com and get in touch. That's it from us today. We hope you've enjoyed our episode on grief. We'll see you next week for another amazing discussion. I'm Kathi Tait the baldwarrior, and with Daisy Papp, we are Bald and Blonde
Daisy 33:24
Mindset Evolution.
Daisy 33:27
Thank you for tuning in to the Bald and Blonde Mindset Evolution podcast. If you love what you're hearing, please subscribe to our podcast. In our show notes, you'll find the link to our Facebook group where you can personally connect with Daisy and Kathi and the link to our website where you can find all of our previous episodes and much more of goodies so you can get more value. Please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Podchaser, that really helps out the show and helps us to get some powerful feedback from you. Talk to you soon.