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SUMMARY KEYWORDS
boundaries, feel, important, punctual, reacting, respond, bullied, people, podcast, singular, minutes, understand, request, opinion, create, consequence, share, person, absolutely
SPEAKERS
Kathi, Daisy
Daisy 00:02
Bald and Blonde. Welcome to the mindset evolution podcast. Hear about tips, tricks, skills, tools, inspiration, mental hygiene, know what you want and how to create what you desire to achieve predictable results and create a content life wherever you are. And here your hosts Kathi Tait and Daisy Papp.
Kathi 00:26
Hi everybody out there this is Kathi Tait, the baldwarrior coming to you on the Bald and Blonde Mindset Evolution podcast and with me as always is Daisy Papp from Florida Keys. How're you doing, Daisy.
Daisy 00:42
Hello dear friend Kathi down under in yesterday land. Thank you so much. I'm doing fantastic. Good to see you. Good to hear you. I'm very busy and I so prioritize that we're doing these episodes so I'm very happy besides working one on one with clients. How you are?
Kathi 00:59
I'm fantastic Daisy, I'm so excited about what we're creating together and the people that we're reaching, it is just driving me to create more value and more ways in which we can help people. So I'm doing really well in tomorrowland.
Daisy 01:19
So glad to hear that. (Laughter)
Kathi 01:24
Now, of course, in the background, as always, I pick the topics and throw them at Daisy right before we hit the record button. And today I've chosen to talk about boundaries. And this is because this is something that I have personally struggled with and so I thought it'd be a great time to talk it out and see how our listeners can also benefit from that. I think one of my issues with boundaries and I thought a lot about this, is that when I was young, my feelings were hurt a lot. I was bullied very badly from the hair loss and from other children and also adults. So I grew up feeling quite sensitive and feeling very sensitive to other people and that then led to me finding it very difficult to say what I really felt, in fear of hurting someone's feelings, and also made it hard to say 'no' to people for fear of hurting their feelings. So I think that's where my issue with boundary stems. So what do you think of that Daisy?
Daisy 02:40
First of all, I appreciate another wonderful topic. As you said, yes, it's like about two minutes ago, I learned what the topic is, and yes, I'm ready. What do I think about you feeling it challenging to set boundaries because you felt hurt by being bullied? I think there are two different concepts in the underground in your unconscious, in your subconscious running simultaneously. The one is that you feel the past hurt. You don't feel it today anymore because you worked on it. That's one thing and on the other side because you know how it feels to be hurt, you're probably more sensitive of hurting others. So you made a connection that might be logical to others and might be not logical to some.
Daisy 03:24
Boundaries are very important. One of my teachers I like to quote him really so often, frequently I do. He said clear boundaries and clear agreements are healthy and necessary. And it took me a while to comprehend and to grasp the magnitude of that. Now clear boundaries, where do we start? Let me give you an example. Okay, for example, you and I, we agreed to meet at a specific point in time to do this recording and let's say this is not the case. Dear listeners, I'm just making this as an example. Let's say Kathi is every single time five minutes late and that would be not a big deal because who says, okay, five minutes, not a big deal. But if it's a pattern and in these five minutes while I'm waiting, something happens within me, right? Emotions start boiling energy in motion and therefore when I finally meet you, I'm maybe warmed up. I may be upset. I'm connected rather to my anger inside or the upset or the frustration, or maybe I feel bullied by you.
Kathi 04:28
Yeah.
Daisy 04:28
And now if I don't address it, the famous elephant in the room, what happens that I'm creating more thoughts? These more thoughts around I feel bullied, this is unfair. Why do I always have to wait for her? Hmm, then I will not be able to present myself the best version I can be. Is that kind of clear?
Kathi 04:48
Yes, absolutely. Yeah.
Daisy 04:51
Therefore, now I have two options. I either swallow it, which is not healthy. Because whatever I swallow, needs to go somewhere. We know that when I drink lots of water because I'm using my voice almost all day long speaking and I'm using lots of water to hydrate myself, I use the bathroom also a lot. When I am swallowing the frustration, feeling bullied, feeling disrespected maybe, or feeling not worthy. So I'm not your priority so that you are on time. So my thinking processing kicks in my emotions, my feelings just everything starts boiling within me. When everything starts boiling within me, and I don't say a thing, it needs to go somewhere.
Agreed?
Kathi 05:31
Yes
Daisy 05:31
Just like the water I'm drinking to hydrate. That's one unhealthy outlet. Or I can choose to address it with you
and I speak about the elephant in the room. I suggest ask questions before blaming someone because we don't know what it is that's going on in the other person. It could be that they're stage frightened and they're anxious because Okay, oh my goodness, now I need to sit in front of the microphone, everything is going to be recorded globally, everyone almost can have access everyone with an internet and smart device can have access to my voice and maybe I need these five minutes to just do some breathing exercise to collect myself within me. Or maybe you're really ignorant and you say I don't care, she's going to wait for me anyways. Could be, but I need to be the one who's investigating.
Kathi 06:18
Yes, that makes sense.
Daisy 06:20
So I'm fishing for data
Kathi 06:21
Before you make assumptions, right?
Daisy 06:24
Yes, absolutely to the point. So I can go fishing for data information. I'm like Sherlock Holmes. I'm a good investigator. And I'm just going out to find some information. So I ask first person singular, we want to speak first person singular so that your defense mechanism can stay low, so I can reach you because the moment when your defense mechanism goes up, Chinese wall goes around you and you will be shut down and just defending yourself, your reptilian brain switched on, you're in alert mode, fight, flight or freeze and I'm creating more problems. So I speak first person singular. And I say, Kathi, I wonder, can you help me understand what's the reason, what I'm observing is happening here that when we're recording every single time you're five minutes late. Can you help me understand? That's soft.
Kathi 07:15
Yes. And safe!
Daisy 07:16
I'm inquiring, I'm requesting.
Kathi 07:19
Yes.
Daisy 07:20
So now you can come up, yeah, I'm so anxious. You should see me five minutes before we start because I have shaky hands. I need to go pee. I need to drink another water. I need to run up and down the hallway, whatever that might be. I'm not saying that makes it right, that you're not punctual.
Kathi 07:37
No, but at least makes it understandable.
Daisy 07:39
Then I give myself the gift to understand.
Kathi 07:42
Yeah
Daisy 07:43
So I turn it around. I'm here in the power position. I give myself the gift to understand. instead of blaming you, making assumptions, mind reading, projecting, mmh? And then let's say you say I'm sorry, I'm always late. Now, again, it's like the letter Y. It's like a road, you can either go left or you go right. I can react to that and say, yes, you're an adult, you should be able to be punctual! There I'm reacting.
Daisy 08:10
Or when I'm with me, I can respond instead and I can say, for example, here's what I'm observing. I'm observing you being late. I did not know the reasons for it. That's why I'm asking. And here's how I feel when that happens. I feel disrespected, I feel being ignored. I feel abandoned because I'm sitting here all by myself. I'm looking forward to our recordings and then I'm sitting here all by myself, and then I start questioning myself as it maybe about me. So I share with you what's going on within me, mmh?
Kathi 08:44
Yes
Daisy 08:44
To help you understand and now comes my request.
Kathi 08:48
Yes.
Daisy 08:49
Is it possible that we can agree to meet on the agreed point in time and now I add one more ingredient because I share with you how that would make me feel, not to justify, but I can say, because if you were punctual, I would feel so important to you just as much important as I feel you are to me.
Kathi 09:09
Yes.
Daisy 09:09
So now I set a boundary here. It's dressed up in a request, but it's very clear. Would you agree?
Kathi 09:15
I think so. Yes. And I think it's a really great way of putting it.
Daisy 09:20
First person singular is magic.
Kathi 09:22
Yeah.
Daisy 09:22
Now, next time we meet for recording, and again, it's another letter Y, either right or left, yes or no. Either you will be punctual or you will not I don't know. If you're punctual, then I'm going again to speak about the elephant in the room. The good one, the cute one. And I say, Kathi, thank you so much for being punctual because it means really so much for me. Now, I feel important to you. So I'm reinforcing. I share with you one more time what's happening within me by you being punctual.
Daisy 09:52
Or you're not punctual and now I call it out and I can say, Kathi, I'm truly confused. I wonder, do you remember that we addressed that last time for you being on time would be important to me. Did you remember that? And now you can respond either, yes, I remember and I can say then please help me understand what happened here. And then you come with either just, ya ya you know, it's not a big deal. Why do you need always to make a big deal out of this? But I'm standing firm with my request, I stay with me. That's where the power is.
Kathi 10:25
Yes.
Daisy 10:26
Or you say, No, I don't remember. Then I help you remember our conversation last week or last month, last year, if I remember correctly, and I tell you my point of view that is soft. When I present it this way, even if I was bullied, or even if I'm overly empathetic about other people's feelings, there is no reason for me to assume or think or believe that this could be hurtful because I'm polite and I'm responding, not reacting. Responding, the response ability, the ability to respond is my responsibility.
Kathi 11:04
Yes
Daisy 11:04
Is that helpful?
Kathi 11:05
Yes, it is very much. And I think one of the keys there is the confidence to stand firm and to know your self-worth, and that you deserve that respect from the other person. The other person isn't always going to give it to you, though.
Daisy 11:23
No
Kathi 11:23
There are always going to be people that will brush you off or not be real enough to be able to have the conversation and respond genuinely. In that instance, the way you talk about responding instead of reacting is really the key. Because we are only responsible for our own behaviors and our own reactions. We can't change how other people are going to act or react to us, primarily we can control our own selves.
Daisy 11:54
That's difficult enough.
Kathi 11:56
Yes.
Daisy 11:57
It requires quite some self-discipline, doesn't it?
Kathi 12:00
Yes, hence the need for this podcast. (Laughter). So one of the keys comes back to knowing our own self-worth and being able to say I deserve this boundary.
Daisy 12:14
Yes. But nevertheless, why would I even think about do I deserve it or don't I? This is how I feel about it. To me personally, punctuality is important and I have the right to feel punctuality being important to me. We're not even going to the self-worth yet.
Kathi 12:30
I was dropping a stroke there, yes, because I think that's the root of the issue when people find it hard to set boundaries. I've been in a lot of extreme situations regarding boundaries, so I guess I talk from a place that isn't just about something as everyday as punctuality so when I say I have had trouble putting boundaries in place, it's usually in regards to a toxic relationship that I have found myself in.
Daisy 13:02
Okay, so now let's do an experiment here. Give me something specific of a situation that you've been in that is about boundaries or you feeling that it's challenging for you to set a boundary.
Kathi 13:14
Okay? I'm not going to name the relationship because I don't want to do that.
Daisy 13:17
No
Kathi 13:18
In this particular relationship, I felt like I wasn't being talked to with respect. I felt like I was been talked down to a lot of the time and it had been going on for so long it had become a habit, and I didn't know how to set a boundary to change that, without causing conflict.
Daisy 13:39
Okay, let's reverse the roles. I am you and you're the toxic person, just for this experiment. Are you okay with that?
Kathi 13:47
Why do you always have to say that's better than that? Why do you talk like that? Like, why are you always criticizing that one thing has to be better than the other.
Daisy 14:01
If I understand you correctly, you are wondering why I'm criticizing or comparing one thing is better than the other. Is that what you're referring to?
Kathi 14:13
Yes.
Daisy 14:14
Okay. Well, I'm really sorry that you feel criticism. That's not what I'm trying to deliver. I'm expressing my opinion that I have based on my past experience and my likes or dislikes. And I wonder if you can respect that opinion of mine.
Kathi 14:31
That's really good to see because that's how I answered but not quite. My first response was, that's my opinion, why aren't I allowed to have an opinion? And you can see the difference between how Daisy said it,
Daisy 14:45
You were defending yourself,
Kathi 14:46
Right? Me just responding that way or reacting with defensiveness is what I actually did in that example. It's a real-life example and reacting that way, then did cause a bit of conflict.
Daisy 15:01
But who questioned in the first place? If you had the right to your own opinion or not, you were insecure about that. You put it out there, the moment you defend it, who put it out there...
Kathi 15:13
it was definitely a theme in this particular relationship because of the place I was at personally at the time.
Daisy 15:22
Uh huh.
Kathi 15:22
And I was probably defensive about a lot of things, looking back. It's much easier to look back and see what went on and how you behaved and what patterns there were and what your triggers were than it is to see them when you're in them. Right?
Daisy 15:37
Of course. So hind sight, it's easier to see when you have a little distance and you evolved and grew in the meantime, but rule of thumb is I believe I have the right to my opinion, and every feeling has the right to exist. What I do with the feeling, that's my responsibility, responsibility, my ability to respond. I have my responsibilities, you have your responsibility. If you are rude, then that's your responsibility. My responsibility is to not go on your level, but to stand firm knowing that I have the right to have an opinion. And I have the right to all my feelings.
Kathi 16:15
Yeah, absolutely. I love that. And that actually points us back. If you have not listened to episode one yet. Who are you that will go deeper into that very point that Daisy's just made? And actually, Daisy, I'd like to circle back.
Daisy 16:31
Please.
Kathi 16:31
And just talk a little bit more about the first person singular for our listeners and explain how that is so important in this process, because I think it changes everything.
Daisy 16:49
Let me give you an example. Let's say I want to set a boundary. Let's say I want you to be punctual.
Kathi 16:55
Yes.
Daisy 16:56
To circle back to the previous example, that is you being late five minutes, which you're not, in this time. (Laughter)
Kathi 17:06
I only did it twice.
Daisy 17:09
Let me give you two examples. So the first one is when I'm reactive, and I say you better be on time next time because otherwise I will not be on time ever again. So I'm offensive. I'm defending, actually the situation in that message that I just said, there's so much emotion, there's already some anger, frustration, you can hear
it.
Kathi 17:29
Yes
Daisy 17:30
Tone, voice and I said you. If you are not... because you are always late... Saying you, I am pointing fingers, I point fingers to territory that's out of my control. Anyways, all I can do is inspire you to be on time, because it would make me feel so tremendously valued. Please would you participate in that? You see, I turn it around. Now first person singular, I say look when I observe the lack of punctuality on your part, I feel used, I feel worthless. I know my self-worth has nothing to do with you, but it really triggers something within me. So you see here in the second part I explain what's going on within me because it is going on within me.
Kathi 18:16
Yes.
Daisy 18:17
So why would I speak about you? I speak about me not in a selfish, self-centered way. I'm sharing with you what's going on with Daisy within her, here inside flesh and blood human. And I share that with you and therefore I increased chances to be understood. Agreed.
Kathi 18:37
Absolutely. This is the point where people feel vulnerable but without the vulnerability then you don't get to be understood.
Daisy 18:45
But you're vulnerable anyways, if you show it or not, it's hurting you the same way, you just do something else with it.
Kathi 18:53
Ah
Daisy 18:54
Yes
Kathi 18:54
Great way to say that.
Daisy 18:55
You are vulnerable and I am vulnerable. If I say to you, because you're always late, I quit. I'm not going to do any more episodes with you because you're always late and that's it. I quit. That's it. In my voice, and in my tone, in my words, I'm sharing with you what's within me, but I don't verbalize it clearly. Therefore, I'm decreasing chances to be understood. Part of healthy boundaries and I don't have to justify it. If you ask her, but why now you need me to be punctual, because you're German or what? And I can, I don't have to justify it. I can say, no.
Daisy 19:36
She's just laughing.
Kathi 19:37
Sorry, she says that all the time... (laughter)
Daisy 19:47
I heard that before in my head. But Daisy, why are you so organized because you're German? You think you're German now you need to be organized. No, that's what I like. But I don't need to justify why she says... She's cracking up. But back to the boundaries. So I'm sharing with you, this is my request and I invite you to participate in this request and I share with you how it feels to me, if my request is ignored. Now my ball is in your court, because I hold you accountable and responsible to respond to my request, and I can do that gently without blaming you. That is why I speak first person singular.
Kathi 20:32
that explains it really well. And again, if they don't want to participate that's not on you. You can only do your part of it.
Daisy 20:40
Then you need to make a decision because a healthy boundary requires in the second step, a consequence.
Kathi 20:47
Yes
Daisy 20:48
Boundaries without consequences are worthless.
Kathi 20:51
Absolutely.
Daisy 20:52
So therefore, when I'm angry, I better don't say to you, you know that I never ever do podcast with you ever again. That's it. Quit. Done. I'm over you. My crocodile in the back. I don't have a crocodile. The reptilian brain within me is active and is just barking. Hmm? Instead of me speaking and communicating.
Kathi 21:11
Yes.
Daisy 21:11
So I need to be with me and watch your words guys, self-discipline! I know it's a different topic but to set clear boundaries I do believe it is important to verbalize it clearly, the clearer the boundaries are verbalized the clearer it is for other people to understand. You increase the chances to be understood. That's your responsibility. And now when you speak first person singular why this is important, or you don't have to justify why, can you and I agree to be punctual when we start recording? Can we not? And if it is that important to me, then I really need to quit or I adjust my schedule and I say okay, so she's going to be late five minutes anyways. So I'm going to meet her 10 minutes later, and I make my schedule around that but then that's the consequences.
Kathi 21:57
Yes, it's a decision to accept it or to not accept it, really.
Daisy 22:01
Yes. And then taking action?
Kathi 22:02
Yes
Daisy 22:03
There must be a consequence. If a boundary is consistently ignored or violated, it is important to have a consequence. Healthy.
Kathi 22:11
Yes
Daisy 22:12
Agree?
Kathi 22:12
Absolutely, absolutely. I think that says it all actually. I think that going back in time with the knowledge that I have now that I would focus on responding, rather than reacting, and I would focus on that self-belief that I was always lacking, and it's taking me time to build that because I didn't seek help from other people, which is what drives me to do this and all the other things I do, because I really want to help people get there faster. I don't want people out there to spend their whole lives struggling with this stuff, when we have this knowledge that we can help them so easily with.
Daisy 23:01
Taking shortcuts. I'm all in. Yes.
Kathi 23:03
And thanks for tuning in today and make sure that you hit subscribe and share us with your friends and family. And of course, as always, we love feedback, guys. We love comments. We love questions. We love topic suggestions. We love hearing about what you're going through.
Kathi 23:03
Absolutely. So we're actually going to finish off our episode there, guys. Thanks for listening with us today. If you're not yet part of our Facebook group, dream life creators, please come on over. We do extra stuff in the group around our podcast topics, as well as guiding you through a dream life blueprint that will help you create real change in your life. And we're really excited to be doing that together with our Facebook tribe.
Daisy 23:54
And thank you so much for all of you out there supporting us. There is an option on the podcast where you can support us and we already have people supporting us and I so wanted to give you a big shout out. Thank you so much, because that gives us the feedback that it's good what we're doing and keep on going. Thank you so much. Talk to you soon.
Kathi 24:14
Bye now.
Daisy 24:15
Thank you so much for tuning in to the Bald and Blonde Mindset Evolution podcast. Make sure you like our podcast, comment, and leave us a five-star review. Subscribe on iTunes or wherever you consume podcasts, share with your friends and loved ones. Leave a comment and reach out to us with questions and how we can help you change your life. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Talk to you next time.